# Why did the "Wizard of Oz" movie resonate so powerfully for some gay men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 25, 2002, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562 "2002-11-25T00:26:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/21 "2002-11-25T17:58:13Z")
I think the gay fascination with the movie is mostly a media creation that some gays bought into. Judy Garland certainly was megapopular to some gays (the Stonewall Riots actually began at a memorial service for her), but that’s very dated. Most younger (under 40) gays now are more into techno-music (egad!) and Cher/Kylie/other living divas. There was an all gay radio production of WIZARD OF OZ as an AIDS benefit a few years ago; it starred, among others, Nathan Lane and Chad Allen (the oldest son from Dr. Quinn). ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/22 "2002-11-25T18:07:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\*Damn! Here it is: > > [http://us.imdb.com/Title?0054015](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0054015) \*\* Huh. I never knew that existed! I was thinking of this: > [@](#): > > 1957 > July - Walt Disney announces he will begin shooting in November for the never-produced The Rainbow Road to Oz, featuring TV’s popular “Mickey Mouse Club” Mousketeers. (This title also had been proposed by De Crawley Films, Canada, sometime in the 1930s.) > Sept. 11 - Three musical numbers for the planned Rainbow Road to Oz are shown on the television program, “Disneyland Fourth Anniversary Show.” The Mouseketeers star as the Oz characters and Walt Disney himself appears on the program to talk about his Oz project. From [here](http://www.ozclub.org/reference/oztl1957.htm) That same website (in 1960) says this about the Shirley Temple piece you’re referencing: > [@](#): > > Sept. 18 - The first episode of the weekly “The Shirley Temple Show” presents The Land of Oz on NBC. The 55-minute William Asher production stars Shirley as Tip/Ozma, Agnes Moorehead as Mombi, Ben Blue, Arthur Treacher and Jonathon Winters. Asher will cast Agnes Moorhead as Endora in the long-running television series “Bewitched” because of this performance. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/23 "2002-11-25T18:27:16Z")
“The Land of Oz” referenced above was simply an episode of _The Shirley Temple Show_ (1960-61). It should not have received a separate listing in the Internet Movie Database as if it were a special. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/24 "2002-11-25T22:21:45Z")
Eve, You and Salman Rushdie. The first essay in his current book is all about the Wizard of Oz (the film). Its a really good piece. Rushdie isn’t a bad film deconstructionist. And he hates Toto. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/25 "2002-11-25T22:48:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*My only question is why the idiot chooses to return to Kansas at the end. \*\* That’s my whole problem with it… I love the music, but the whole moral of the story- “there’s no place like home, try as you might you are doomed to a life of normalcy…”- really bugs me. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/26 "2002-11-25T23:31:15Z")
I hate Toto, too. What really irks me is that I suspect that the _band_ Toto was only allowed to wreck the soundtrack of David Lynch’s adaptation of _Dune_ as a way for Mr. Lynch to sneak in one of his signature _Oz_ references. 😉 > [@](#): > > **grendel** : …the whole moral of the story- “there’s no place like home, try as you might you are doomed to a life of normalcy…”- really bugs me. Take heart, _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ isn’t the whole story. I forget which book it is in which Dorothy observes “No matter where I go, I always end up back in Oz.” Thanks for the heads-up about _[John Dough and the Cherub](http://www.home.aone.net.au/sk/oz/dough.txt)_, **Fenris**! I’ve written a couple of obscure essays on elements of hermeticism and alchemy in the _Oz_ books… A quick glance shows references (apart from the concept of the Divine Hermaphrodite, obviously,) to the aqua vitae, homonculi, obscure biblical jokes that few children would be expected to pick up on – (“She was weighed in the balance and found wanting”, which is reminiscent of the chemical wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz…) etc etc… In short: I’m gonna _love_ this one. (Whoops, guess I just outed myself as a lunatic, there. Oh well.) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/27 "2002-11-26T00:23:54Z")
**Larry** , If you like that one, you should also check out Baum’s **The Master Key** which is an Edisonade\* and involves weird, semi-mystical elements at the same time (Young electrical inventor summons the Djinn of Electricity who gives him wonderous new “Electrical” gadgets (like “electric food pills” which nourish you via electricity(?) ) You should also check out Baum’s **Life and Adventures of Santa Claus** which is a weirdly pagan look at Santa. (And **Queen Zixi of Ix** is his best _written_ book (far better than **The Wonderful Wizard** ), but it doesn’t (IIRC) have the elements of alchemy, etc.) Fenris \*“Jeepers fellas! Tom’s got his _NEW ELECTRIC ROCKETSHIP_! We should take a spin to Venus and impress the Venusian Co-Eds with our _NEW ELECTRIC SUITS!!_” ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/28 "2002-11-26T02:40:37Z")
Any opinions on- _The Oz Wonderland War (with Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew)_ _Wicked_ Whether Seth Green’s career will ever recover? BTW-So we’ve got gender swapping, a hermaphrodite, and the castrated Tin Man(Forget a heart, I know what organ I would’ve ask the Wizard for.) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/29 "2002-11-26T03:06:46Z")
I thought “Oz-Wonderland War” was clunky, the two books didn’t mesh at all, and especially didn’t mesh with the super-hero genre…but… there was some magic there too. Something good came out of the mish-mash. **Wicked** : First two-thirds were great, then the book turned (IMO) into drivel. I still have no idea what happened and sadly, don’t care enough to go back and try to figure it out. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/30 "2002-11-26T04:13:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\*Any opinions on- > BTW-So we’ve got gender swapping, a hermaphrodite, and the castrated Tin Man(Forget a heart, I know what organ I would’ve ask the Wizard for.) \*\* Wizard: As for you, my galvanized friend - you want a penis! You don’t know how lucky you are not to have one. Penises will never be practical until they can be made controllable. Tin Man: But I - I still want one. Wizard: Back where I come from there are men who do nothing all day but good deeds. They are called phil…er…phil…er…er… good-deed-doers and their penises are no bigger than yours, but they have one thing you haven’t got! A movie deal! Therefore, in consideration of your kindness, I take pleasure at this time in presenting you with this small token of our esteem and affection. And remember, my sentimental friend, that a penis is not judged by how much you make love, but by how much you are made love to by others. Tin Man: Oh, Oh, it sticks out! Listen! Look, it sticks out! ---
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/31 "2002-11-26T04:43:46Z")
While we’re on the subject… someone explain to me what the rainbow has to do with anything. Or is it because Judy Garland was a big Gay-Rights advocate and that was her biggest movie and most memorable song? Is it just that? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562/32 "2002-11-26T05:11:05Z")
From _Emerald City Blues_ by Steven R Boyett > [@](#): > > "The Tin Woodsman swims the length of his Olympic-sized pool, breast-stroking his hollow body through the Quaker State forty-weight. He emerges, dripping viscuously, and bends his legs and flexes his arms to work the oil into his knees and elbows. A bespectacled assistant hands him the evening edition of the _Green Street Journal_: he turns immediately to Commodoties. > Hearing himself scrape as he sits on a stone bench, he thinks, \* I ought to do something about that. A little foam padding, perhaps.\* > He opens his chest and pulls out his heart. Nine twenty five already. The revelry would go on for another two and a half hours-until Glinda made everybody go to bed. > Being in one of the Good Guys sure has its drawbacks, he reflects. But it’s probably for the best, since Dorothy arrives tommorow. > Dorothy. . . > He looks down and, for the ten thousandth time, curses his incompleteness. “If I only had a hard,” he sighs. > > . . . > > The once-cowardly Lion, king of beasts, ignores the big-breasted woman plaiting his calves as he searches through the matted fur of his emaciated arm. He finds a healthy vein and grins carnivorously. He wraps his tail tightly around his elbow and clenches his fist several times, then slips the needle of a hypodermic syringe into the vein and pushes the plunger. > Euphoria courses up his arm and throughout his undernourished body. _Courage_, he thinks. > The woman gives up plaiting his legs and sits on the polished floor giggling to herself. > The Lion folds his paws behind his head and feels himself beginning to float above the couch. He stares contentedly at the emerald ceiling and thinks of the revelers outside the city wall. _Whatta they got that I ain’t got?_ > . . . > > _Why can’t they break pinatas, or hold a parade, or anything else in the goddamned world?_ the Scarecrow wonders._But no, they’ve got to light the biggest damned fire they can make and I’ve got to preside over it. > If the wind changes I’m going to go up like a firework. The King of Ahhs._ > The Scarecrow bows to a party of Good Witches in Training from the south-southeast. They blush behind thick layers of rouge, duck their heads, and smile shyly with reddened lips. With charming sophomorism they recite spells to light the brands they contribute to the bonfire’s blaze. Straightening, the Scarecrow fixes his painted eyes on the white-taffeta-gowned-butt of one of the Good Witches. > One of the prudish Munchkins catches him staring at the Good Witch’s butt. The Scarecrow stares him down until he turns away, red-faced and muttering apologies. > _Short little fuck._ > He looks back at the white-clad derriere. > _Maybe I shouldn’t have asked for brains_. Now, will chu take this thread to Cuba or do I have to become violent? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-wizard-of-oz-movie-resonate-so-powerfully-for-some-gay-men/138562.md?page=1)