# Why did they drop "Junior High" in favor of "Middle School"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 11, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636 "2018-02-11T17:40:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2026, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/81 "2026-02-04T22:50:47Z")
so I went to elementary school grades1-8, the high school grades 9-12, hence 2 buildings. But based on what I’m reading, by going from 2 “grade systems” to 3, doesn’t that result in needing 3 buildings? That’s got to be expensive for school districts plus trying to fit in proximate area ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2026, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/82 "2026-02-06T03:53:13Z")
forgot, that was in 60’s ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2026, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/83 "2026-02-06T04:08:39Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#): > > Montreal (and Quebec in general) always have to be different. [Snip.] Thanks for that. I’ve always wondered about Quebec’s high schools and CEGEPs and so on. Great explanation; thanks again. I went to school in Ontario in the 1960s and 1970s. I went to _public school_ for grades K to 6, _senior public school_ for grades 7 and 8, and _high school_ for grades 9 to 13. Actually, it was a _collegiate institute_, which was what the more academically-oriented high schools were called, but it was still high school. And yes, Ontario really did have a Grade 13 in those days. I live in Alberta now, and there are _middle schools_ for grades 7 and 8, not senior publics, so I guess either times changed, or naming conventions differ between provinces, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2026, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/84 "2026-02-07T15:58:50Z")
Doesn’t Toronto still have “collegiate institutes” and “technical schools”? Traditionally - the latter was for those going into the trades, and the former for academics. Is this still true? [update - after looking at [List of secondary schools in the Toronto District School Board - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_secondary_schools_in_the_Toronto_District_School_Board) I see that they are almost all called “collegiate institutes” - few high schools or “techs” left.] Ontario’s grade 13 allowed you to proceed directly into second-year university after graduating. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2026, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/85 "2026-02-07T20:02:43Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > I don’t believe 6th graders and Kindergarten students should intermingle without restriction. Does that usually happen? Historically, kindergarten rooms had their own fenced off play yards, completely off limits to older students. IIRC when I was in kindergarten, we did have to go in through the main door of the school, but our room was the one closest to door. Other than that there was no chance to mingle. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2026, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/86 "2026-02-07T23:01:16Z")
Elementary was k-6, junior high 7-9 and high school 10-12. Cleveland suburb. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2026, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/87 "2026-02-07T23:45:08Z")
A contemporary discussion from the peak years of the “middle school movement” (1989): [quote] The Central Middle School in Murfreesboro is one of a growing number of middle-grade schools that are trying to stretch the meaning of the movement beyond the merely organizational. They are altering the way they present material and schedule classes to foster a more personal and stimulating climate for adolescents. Stressing “child-centered” teaching, they have abandoned the idea of large “mini high-schools,” where pupils are grouped by ability and change classes for every subject. Their schools favor smaller learning units, interdisciplinary teaching teams, and advising systems that offer students regular access to at least one adult in a support role. While pockets of schools have been experimenting with these methods since the 1970’s, the movement has enjoyed a surge of interest in recent years, as educators have come to view reform in the middle grades as a critical element in dropout prevention. The demographic trends and enrollment patterns of the last decade have also fueled the interest […] Replacing 7th- to 9th-grade junior highs with 6th- or 7th- to 8th-grade middle schools “has provided a platform to look at a concept of education that has been around for many, many years,” says James P. Garvin, president of the National Middle School Association and director of the New England League of Middle Schools. The concept is that students in the early adolescent years need a separate and distinctive educational experience to ease them through a volatile period of development. [\quote] > **[Middle Schools Gain With 'Focus' on Child](https://www.edweek.org/education/middle-schools-gain-with-focus-on-child/1989/06)** > > When Terry M. Weeks set out in the mid-1970's to teach his Murfreesboro, Tenn., 7th graders a lesson on the Middle East, the approach he chose was the lecture. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2026, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/88 "2026-02-08T01:59:42Z")
We still called it Junior high in the 90s, it was 6-8th grade. It was horrible. All the fuckups and lowlifes from the other elementary schools I was sheltered from in my K-5 went there. I’m glad most of the ones who were assholes are in prison, addicted or dead now. Cycle of abuse, yada yada yada. I’m just glad karma caught them. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2026, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/89 "2026-02-11T13:43:32Z")
When I was in school in Arizona in 1969, our school was 1-4, 5-8, 9-12. Naturally, I assumed that was the only way. I think 5-8 was /called/ “junior high”, but, since it was starting at year 5, it may have been structured more like “middle school”. If I get a chance, I’ll ask my sister. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2026, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/90 "2026-02-11T14:03:50Z")
> [@fedman1](#): > > But based on what I’m reading, by going from 2 “grade systems” to 3, doesn’t that result in needing 3 buildings? Not necessarily. When I was in school in the 70s, it was K-5 (elementary), 6-8 (called either junior high or middle school, interchangeably), and 9-12 (high school). Elementary and junior high were in separate wings of the same building. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2026, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/91 "2026-02-11T14:38:04Z")
It also allows split sessions - for some of the time I was in high school, some students attended periods 1 to possibly 8 (lots of people skipped lunch or didn’t need a full schedule of classes so they left earlier than 8th period) , with homeroom after second period. Others attended periods 3-10 so homeroom was before 3rd period. Lunch could be absurdly early- I think the earliest started around 10 ish. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2026, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/92 "2026-02-11T15:00:02Z")
> [@fedman1](#): > > But based on what I’m reading, by going from 2 “grade systems” to 3, doesn’t that result in needing 3 buildings? That’s got to be expensive for school districts plus trying to fit in proximate area Depends on the school district - my school district has a lot of schools because there are a lot of students. There are three public schools that go up to 5th grade , a middle school and a high school campus within a mile of my house. That’s in addition to two Catholic schools that go from pre-K to eighth grade. When the divisions change , they don’t need any additional buildings - they just change which kids attend which building- for example, I know of a school building that started out as a “public school” grades 1-8 ( its still says PS# in stone over the main door). By sometime in the 60s it became a junior high school and by the late 90s , it was Intermediate School#. When the school changed to a JHS, they moved the grades below 7 to the elementary schools that had room because they no longer had 7 or 8th grades. When they changed to Intermediate or middle schools (only difference is the name) they moved the 9th graders to high schools, which already had 9th grades to accommodate the Catholic and Lutheran school kids. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2026, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/93 "2026-02-11T16:33:32Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Could it have been a gender thing as “Junior” typically implies male? Seriously? Okay, to keep “Junior” as a male designation, all the dresses in “Junior” sizes will only be purchased by boys. If you are a Junior Bridesmaid, you are now a man. Or if you attend New Mexico Junior College. The same holds if you are on a Junior Varsity field hockey team. And I’d better not catch any of you girls eating Junior Mints! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2026, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/94 "2026-02-11T17:17:38Z")
In Latin, junior (IVNIOR) is both masculine and feminine. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2026, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/95 "2026-02-11T19:19:40Z")
Hey, just a theory ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2026, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/96 "2026-02-11T20:08:07Z")
Dang it, now I’m hungry for Junior Mints. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2026, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/97 "2026-02-11T21:01:02Z")
Think about why “junior” as a suffix to a name typically implies male. Would not apply to a school . ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2026, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/98 "2026-02-11T22:24:27Z")
Thanks. I do remember lunch being something that could happen for some people at 10:00 and some people at after 1. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2026, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/99 "2026-02-13T01:25:51Z")
Mine was officially a “junior high” with just 7-8. I recall colloquially it was interchangeable with “middle school.” My son will eventually go to a “middle school” with 6-7-8. (And my office has at least one female client who’s a “Jr.” Unusual but not unheard of.) Probably off topic, but did anyone else’s high school have the “Block” system if class schedule? Classes were twice as long each day and you alternated between two sets of classes. I was reminded of this when thinking about how junior high was my first exposure to moving to different rooms for different subjects. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2026, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636/100 "2026-02-13T01:54:45Z")
The prof was correct about the building use and why they became middle schools. Calling the “true middle school concept” a back-formation is factual as it happened after the rise of so many middle schools. Whether it has merit is my opinion. I have taught grades 8-12 in Georgia and was certified grades 6-12. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-drop-junior-high-in-favor-of-middle-school/808636.md?page=6)