# Why did they get an Oscar? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865 "2007-02-12T16:49:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/1 "2007-02-12T16:49:01Z")
It’s coming up on the time of year when celebrities are hoping to parade around with a firm, golden guy and show him off to the paparazzi. No, I’m not talking about the annual spring divorce filings, I’m talking about Oscar ™ season. Every year there are usually a bunch of good nominations and a few that make you go, “Huh?” It’s almost as if the Academy is passing out the box of assorted chocolates and throws in a Crunchy Frog just to see who will take it. The best example that comes to mind is Marisa Tomei winning for _My Cousin Vinny_. Afterwards people were wondering if Marisa had pictures of Academy members in compromising positions with goats. I mean, look who she was up against: • Judy Davis in _Husbands and Wives_ • Joan Plowright in _Enchanted April_ • Vanessa Redgrave in _Howards End_ • Miranda Richardson in _Damage_ I felt it should have gone to Vanessa and that Marisa should was much better in _In the Bedroom_. So what other examples can you provide of Oscar™ winners, whether for the film or acting, that made you question the sanity (or blackmailability) of the Academy? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/2 "2007-02-12T16:51:24Z")
[QUOTE=erie774] The best example that comes to mind is Marisa Tomei winning for _My Cousin Vinny_. Afterwards people were wondering if Marisa had pictures of Academy members in compromising positions with goats. I mean, look who she was up against: • Judy Davis in _Husbands and Wives_ • Joan Plowright in _Enchanted April_ • Vanessa Redgrave in _Howards End_ • Miranda Richardson in _Damage_ I felt it should have gone to Vanessa and that Marisa should was much better in _In the Bedroom_. [/QUOTE] Note: she was the only American up against four Brits – she got the full benefit of the xenophobe vote. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/3 "2007-02-12T17:11:51Z")
It has to do with the various characteristics of voting systems. The Academy uses a simple plurality. When there are more than one candidate, it can lead to skewed results. After all, if the other candidates split evenly at 19%, Tomei only needed 24% of the vote to win. If you had polled voters and had them rank the candidates, you’d probably find that only a quarter of them thought Tomei was the best. But there is no perfectly satisfactory way of voting on an award. Also, voters tend not to vote for nominees in films they haven’t seen. **My Cousin Vinnie** grossed $52 million; the other four films only grossed $55 million _combined_. It’s certain that more Academy voters saw Tomei than any of the other candidates, so when they had to choose one, they voted for the one person they saw instead of the four they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/4 "2007-02-12T17:18:21Z")
I still can’t figure out how **The Right Stuff** lost Best Picture to **Terms of Endearment**. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/5 "2007-02-12T17:50:51Z")
_Apocolypse Now_ lost out to _Kramer vs. Kramer._ Al Pacino is a great actor, but _Scent of a Woman_?? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/6 "2007-02-12T17:56:03Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] Al Pacino is a great actor, but _Scent of a Woman_?? [/QUOTE] They must have realized he could only be a caricature from then on out, so gave it to him for his previous body of work. 😉 [Here’s](http://www.oscars.org/awardsdatabase/index.html) a database search for anyone who wants to refresh their memory. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/7 "2007-02-12T18:02:45Z")
What the… a thread about undeserved Oscars and no one has (unfairly) bashed **Titanic** yet? Who are you people, and what have you done to the real dopers? ---
**Author:** ![kurilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea5d25/32.png) [@kurilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurilla)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/8 "2007-02-12T18:05:57Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] What the… a thread about undeserved Oscars and no one has (unfairly) bashed **Titanic** yet? Who are you people, and what have you done to the real dopers? [/QUOTE] Because the OP specifically talked about the acting and directing, not “Best Picture.” To add my candidate – “A Beautiful Mind.” Why it got best direction over LOTR is beyond me. LOTR was far more complex in shooting, logistics, editing, and so on, than ABM. (I can probably generalize this to any technically complex movie that loses out to a less technically complex one.) ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/9 "2007-02-12T18:17:22Z")
[QUOTE=kurilla] Because the OP specifically talked about the acting and directing, not “Best Picture.”\ [/QUOTE] Sorry, but in my OP I did say > [@](#): > > whether for the **film** or acting (bolding mine). So please do slam a movie where you already knew what was going to happen to the ship. That sentimental piece of tripe should have been sunk to the bottom of the North Atlantic (of course the special effects were damn good) with Celine Dion strapped to the film canisters. “My heart will go on…” Yeah, and my gorge will rise. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/10 "2007-02-12T18:27:04Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] I still can’t figure out how **The Right Stuff** lost Best Picture to **Terms of Endearment**. [/QUOTE] Yeah, no kidding. It had 7 times more astronauts! ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/11 "2007-02-12T18:27:32Z")
[QUOTE=erie774] So please do slam a movie where you already knew what was going to happen to the ship. [/QUOTE] There are plenty of fair criticisms of **Titanic**. This is certainly not one of them, unless you also want to lambaste every historical movie ever made, not to mention every movie based on a well known previously-written book. For that matter, look at a movie like **American Beauty**. It tells you in the opening seconds that Kevin Spacey is going to die. Does that make it a bad movie? The story of Titanic is not “is the ship going to sink or not?”, it’s two main things: (1) The story of Rose, and how she is redeemed and changed by Jack (I think the love aspect of it is less important than the go-out-and-live-a-full-life aspect, with the key moment being her photos, which at the beginning of the movie seem like stereotypical old-dotty-woman props, but at the end tell you of her ultimate triumph) (2) The fascinating details of how and why the ship sank, how various people acted, recreated in incredibly lush and well produced detail. If you can see the mom telling her children stories and the old couple hugging in bed, all knowing they’re about to die, as _Nearer My God To Thee_ plays, and not shed a tear… ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/12 "2007-02-12T18:45:21Z")
The reasoning has been explained to me many times, but I’m still fuming that Judy Holliday won best actress for her role in _Born Yesterday_ over both Bette Davis in _All About Eve_ and Gloria Swanson in _Sunset Boulevard_. Both of the latter womens’ roles are just about the best actresses’ performances _ever_ (in my opinion), yet they lost. Still pisses me off. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/13 "2007-02-12T18:51:23Z")
[QUOTE=Shoeless] Yeah, no kidding. It had 7 times more astronauts! [/QUOTE] But what an astronaut _Terms_ had! ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/14 "2007-02-12T18:55:56Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] There are plenty of fair criticisms of **Titanic**. This is certainly not one of them, unless you also want to lambaste every historical movie ever made, not to mention every movie based on a well known previously-written book. For that matter, look at a movie like **American Beauty**. It tells you in the opening seconds that Kevin Spacey is going to die. Does that make it a bad movie? The story of Titanic is not “is the ship going to sink or not?”, it’s two main things: (1) The story of Rose, and how she is redeemed and changed by Jack (I think the love aspect of it is less important than the go-out-and-live-a-full-life aspect, with the key moment being her photos, which at the beginning of the movie seem like stereotypical old-dotty-woman props, but at the end tell you of her ultimate triumph) (2) The fascinating details of how and why the ship sank, how various people acted, recreated in incredibly lush and well produced detail. If you can see the mom telling her children stories and the old couple hugging in bed, all knowing they’re about to die, as _Nearer My God To Thee_ plays, and not shed a tear… [/QUOTE] I’m not really griping about the movie because the sinking was a known factor. I see movies based on books even though I know how the story goes. I watched _Good Night and Good Luck_ even though I had read many items and seen documentaries about Murrow and McCarthy. My gripe with _Titanic_ was that it would have been a great film if it told the story of the sinking and skipped the romance. Give more about the crew, the passengers and less to the hokey love story. Or the grave-robber attitude of the submersible crew searching for that damn necklace. Maybe I’m an egotistical male, but I was ticked off that the true love of Rose’s life was some drifter that she banged in the back of a car. At the end when she heads up the central staircase to find Jack, all I can think is, “Where the hell is her husband? The man she spent her life with! She marries a man, has children with him, enjoys a long life but the person she can’t wait to see again after she dies is her one night stand!!! ‘Oh, please sketch me nude, Jack!’ Bullshit!” He must have been one hell of a lay. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/15 "2007-02-12T20:13:47Z")
[QUOTE=erie774] Maybe I’m an egotistical male, but I was ticked off that the true love of Rose’s life was some drifter that she banged in the back of a car. At the end when she heads up the central staircase to find Jack, all I can think is, “Where the hell is her husband? The man she spent her life with! She marries a man, has children with him, enjoys a long life but the person she can’t wait to see again after she dies is her one night stand!!! ‘Oh, please sketch me nude, Jack!’ Bullshit!” He must have been one hell of a lay. [/QUOTE] As a hopeless romantic and unabashed fan of _Titanic_, I have to admit that you raise an excellent point. And now you’ve destroyed the movie for me. I can never enjoy it again. Bastard. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/16 "2007-02-12T20:25:41Z")
[QUOTE=Kizarvexius] As a hopeless romantic and unabashed fan of _Titanic_, I have to admit that you raise an excellent point. And now you’ve destroyed the movie for me. I can never enjoy it again. Bastard. 😃 [/QUOTE] My work here is done! 😉 Most women I talked with said they liked the idea of meeting their true love in heaven (or on the central concourse of a sunken cruise ship, whichever they prefer). When I gave my opinion I got a lot of responses ranging from, “Wow, I never thought of that,” to, “You cold, heartless man! He was her true love!” At least her husband could have been there as well so she could have had eternal three-ways! ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/17 "2007-02-12T20:54:01Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] Al Pacino is a great actor, but _Scent of a Woman_?? [/QUOTE] And Jack Lemmon wasn’t even nominated that year for _Glengarry Glen Ross_. Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/18 "2007-02-12T20:57:05Z")
I don’t think the point of the scene at the very end is “now Rose is in heaven, and who does she spend eternity with? Jack!”. It’s not heaven, it’s just symbolism of the part of Rose’s life that related to the Titanic reaching closure, as she returns the Heart of the Ocean to where it belongs, and as she has revisited the story of Titanic and passed it on to her granddaughter. Rose has achieved closure wrt Jack. Presumably she achieved closure on her husband (who we have no reason to assume she didn’t love) earlier, like, when he died a non-tragic non-iceberg-oriented death of his own. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/19 "2007-02-12T21:02:36Z")
Taking the question in the title quite literally: the reason that _Kramer_ and _Terms_ and _Titanic_ won is because they were far more emotional experiences than _Apocalypse_ or _Stuff_ or _L.A. Confidential_. Now whether you want to argue that they were more crass or sappy or maudlin or manipulative, there’s no denying that those films worked overtime for a genuine dramatic catharsis that the other films didn’t. I’m not saying that being a more emotional film makes you a better one, but it does often make it a more accessible and memorable one, and one more likely to rake in the votes. So that’s how they won. You can disagree all you want, but don’t try to pretend it’s some inscrutable mystery. The answer is usually as simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865/20 "2007-02-12T21:09:13Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] What the… a thread about undeserved Oscars and no one has (unfairly) bashed **Titanic** yet? Who are you people, and what have you done to the real dopers? [/QUOTE] It acually crossed my mind since I was pulling for something else that year, but I begrudgingly thought that technically it probably was an impressive movie. Of course I’ve sufficiently blocked it out to the extent that I don’t even remember this “walking up a staircase” bit. I wonder if I just didn’t make it all the way to the end…? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-get-an-oscar/391865.md?page=2)