# Why did they ruin Dr. Doom in the F4 Movie??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 18, 2005, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144 "2005-12-18T07:44:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/21 "2005-12-19T11:25:07Z")
You know, you guys, you don’t _have_ to explain everyone’;s origin in the story. When the Green Gobklin first showed up in Spider Man, he was a complete blank – no identity (heck, the guy who was his other identitu hadn’t even been intrduced yet). Doom first showed up without much background at all – his full origin didn’t come out until after more than half a dozen comic book appearances, in FF Annual #2. Trying to shoehorn too much into a story can ruin it. I think they would’ve been better without trying to do Doom at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/22 "2005-12-19T12:19:52Z")
Psst: Lex and Clark and the hair loss are actually 1960s comics canon… part of comics as of the 70s Superman movie, which Smallville is sort of a prequel to. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/23 "2005-12-19T19:43:32Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > Positioning Reed as the underdog and Doom as the perfect man (rich, successful, intelligent) makes Reed, an otherwise unlikable character in the comics, more relatable to the audience. I disagree about this: you may not like the character of Reed Richards, but he’s supposed to be a very likable guy. His only two character flaws are that he can get obsessive/workaholic binges and that he can be absent minded. Otherwise, he’s been shown as generous, self-sacrificing, caring, loving, dedicated, etc. Again, I’m not disputing your dislike, but that’s not how the characters in the Marvel universe see him. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/24 "2005-12-19T21:23:19Z")
I know he’s “likable” in the comics. But the two flaws you listed are really the major CHARACTER traits that he has. I can’t even count that number of FF plots that were either driven by those flaws or those flaws played heavily into the story. He’s flawed but he’s a genuine hero, that’s why he liked. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/25 "2005-12-19T22:13:05Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I should point out that the movie version of the FF is, in fact, more closely based on the ‘Ultimate’ Fantastic Four story than the original. As is the Spidey movie. The web shooters are organic in the comic, and Doom has the metal skin. Nope. Ultimate Spidey has mechanical webshooters, based on a formula Peter’s dad had been working on when he died. Peter finishes his dad’s work and incorporates them into the costume after he captures Uncle Ben’s killer. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/26 "2005-12-20T03:17:56Z")
You know, I think you’re right about the webshooters. But I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/27 "2005-12-20T06:02:47Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > You know, I think you’re right about the webshooters. But I’m not sure. If you’re referring to the Ultimate version, yeah he’s right, they’re mechanical. And incorporated really clumsily too. The redone origin was really well done, it took its time to build up and was done alot more subtly than the movies’ overnight transformation, but he dropped the ball on swinging by introducing the webshooters in just a few pages. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/28 "2005-12-20T06:29:01Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > And we’re saying that …well… you’re wrong. There needed to be some revisions. > > From an adapting writer’s point of view, if you have the option to streamline a convulted or outdated origin, you are going to take it. Doom being jealous of Reed because Reed is smarter isn’t going to grab an audience the way that making Doom jealous of Reed because Reed effortlessly has the love of the woman Doom wants. This strikes a much stronger chord with the viewer. > > Positioning Reed as the underdog and Doom as the perfect man (rich, successful, intelligent) makes Reed, an otherwise unlikable character in the comics, more relatable to the audience. > > They tried to make the story as realistic as possible for a comic book movie (science hawks who frequent the “science mistakes that ruin movies” threads please pipe down). Having a despotic ruler of a fictional country forge a suit of armor and make pacts with dark forces is just WAAAAY too much for people who aren’t coming to see Hobbits and Elves. So they made Doom a successful business man and scientist, he’s the better version of Reed. They paid homage to the comics by making him have some connection to Latveria. Now going with Doom getting his powers at the same time as the FF ties them even more together. Its the reason why the Joker killed Batman’s parents in the first Batman movie. It’s why Lex and Clark Kent were friends in school (especially with Smallville tying the meteror shower during Clark’s arrival and young Lex losing his hair). Two sides of the same coin. The FF went through the same experience and became heroes. Doom became a villain. > > Now why the lightning? Well, a suit of armor isn’t good enough. You can’t really have him shoot fire can you? Torch does that. So have him have another primal power that ties into technolgy. Give Doom electric powers. > > The FF movie was flawed. But there were very good reasons for some of the choices even if the execution …well sucked. Seems to me that if they need to go through _that_ much trouble to adapt the comic book, they might as well forego the licensing and make the Terrific Three or something. I can appreciate adaptations for the sake of storytelling, but there’s a point where it crosses the line between movie adaptation and a complete re-write. When that line is crossed, all production should stop and the movie makers should decide which side of the line they want to be on. Bad acting or not, the best part of the movie was Jessica Alba. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/29 "2005-12-20T06:32:09Z")
> [@BluePitbull](#): > > Neither of them is believable. > They might as well keep it close to the comic. The movie is much more believable under the fictional constraints of that universe. It makes more sense for it to be like it was in the movie. The Marvel Universe is one in which weird things can happen and people can get various forms of superpowers. However, there is little in the Marvel universe that would explain Peter Parker, a young man with no advanced degrees in chemistry being able to created what would amount to probably one of the most complex and amazing inventions that one human being has ever produced. Parker isn’t even beyond human “super smart” like Dr. Doom (in one comic Dr. Doom is able to do a calculation faster than a supercomputer) he’s just a brainy teenager at the beginning. Smart, but no smarter than many other bright kids with an interest in science just starting their college careers. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/30 "2005-12-20T14:16:34Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > \They miscast the Invisible Woman so there was no way she would turn out well.\ Yeah but Jessica Alba is smokin hot, so I forgive them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/31 "2005-12-20T14:20:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Smart, but no smarter than many other bright kids with an interest in science just starting their college careers. If you’re referring to the comic-book version, this isn’t true. The early issues pretty consistently show him as being a very gifted chemist. Even The Lizard, when he’s not all scaly, praises Spidey’;s abilities in the lab. He’d have to be, after all, if he ame up with his own webbing. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/32 "2005-12-22T08:59:03Z")
I just watched the DVD of the movie, never read the comic books. What is Latervia? Dr. Doom has an association with this place/country, but it isn’t really explained. I was pleasantly surprised by the movie, it wasn’t as bad as suggested by some of the reviews. Although every time I see Stan Lee, I can’t help thinking of Roger “The Stan Lee Experience”. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/33 "2005-12-22T11:54:34Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > I just watched the DVD of the movie, never read the comic books. What is Latervia? Dr. Doom has an association with this place/country, but it isn’t really explained. > > I was pleasantly surprised by the movie, it wasn’t as bad as suggested by some of the reviews. Although every time I see Stan Lee, I can’t help thinking of Roger “The Stan Lee Experience”. In the comic, Viktor Von Doom (Doc to his friends) is the ruler of the tiny european country of Latveria. I haven’t seen the movie, but I’m betting that it was in there as a nod to the fans and not much else. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144/34 "2005-12-22T12:28:49Z")
> [@Stinkpalm](#): > > Second, a character that is pretty well established in the comic world doesn’t need to have a visual origin. We could have learned his backstory from some exposition or something. Nope. First rule of movies: show, don’t tell. “As you are all no doubt aware, we are fighting Viktor Von Doom, whom, as I don’t need to remind you, hates us because blah blah blah.” Kills a movie dead. Don’t forget, comic book movies aren’t aimed at the fanboys who can nitpick every detail of a character’s origin: they’d never make any money if they did. They’re aimed at Joe Soap and his girlfriend, who want to plop down ten bucks to see Jessica Alba in a body suit and a bunch of people throwing cars at each other. They can be done well - **Hellboy** - or they can be done badly - **The Hulk** - but movies based on comics, especially the less well-known ones {ie not Batman, Spiderman or Superman} simply wouldn’t get made if they were aimed only at the fans. Hell, half the fun is complaining about what a travesty the last offering was, while secretly hoping against hope that the next one will get it right. Please, someone, make a good Judge Dredd movie… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-they-ruin-dr-doom-in-the-f4-movie/336144.md?page=1)