# Why did you hate your high paying job? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 17, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388 "2009-04-17T05:51:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/41 "2009-04-21T20:10:15Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Because it ends up academia is incestuous and boring. > At least my experience of it was. Word. Word word word. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/42 "2009-04-21T20:52:54Z")
I hate my high paying job because I feel like a fake. I’m an environmentalist in the oil and gas industry. Hey, guess what, all that crap about how O&G really does care about the environment is FALSE. They care about profit. They’ll bargain their way into environmental destruction just to make MONEY. And the government and regulating agencies are in on it too. I also am SO SICK of the old boys’ club always getting their way. I am now to the point (just this afternoon) where I’m going ahead with my project regardless of whether the old boys’ club likes it or not. I’m willing to get fired. ‘Oh, why do we have to track greenhouse gases if we don’t have to by law?’ BECAUSE IT’S THE RIGHT THING TO DO ASSHOLE. FUCK OFF. Can you tell I’m worked up today? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/43 "2009-04-21T21:14:39Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Go on. How do you feel about that? How should we? I guess it makes more sense when you list out the reasons people work in those jobs: -Challenging -Interesting work -High standard of living -Feeling of acomplishment -Work with competent, motivated professionals -Interesting travel and other perks -High earning potential -Oportuniy for advancement -Professional respect -Ultimately you want to feel your career is challenging and worthwhile You might have a high paying job that sucks because it lacks those things. I think it’s important to understand that there are diminishing returns on happiness in both directions. You can take jobs that are less stressfull for less money, but at a point, not having any money or feeling that you aren’t meeting up to your own expectations will reduce your happiness. You can work harder and make more money, but eventually you will be working so hard that all you will be doing is working, and for what? Basically you just have to find something you like about whatever it is you do for a living. ---
**Author:** ![Aangelica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Aangelica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aangelica)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/44 "2009-04-21T21:23:08Z")
> [@kathmandu](#): > > I don’t mean to quibble with your post, but I have never, ever, heard of such a billing target. Generally speaking, billable hours targets at large firms are 1800-2000, with significant bonuses kicking in at over 2000. My husband is a senior associate at a large corporate firm, and billed approximately 2400 hours last year, which entailed working many 16 hours days and most weekends with minimal vacation time (i.e. the very occasional long weekend). Where are you located? The one I walked away from was in Seattle, actually. I’ve since moved across the country - but I know that the number of billable hours the associates at my NY firm are told is the target is 2400, but the target they’re told and the actual target are not the same number. Associates making the stated target, but not the real target start getting invited to have little chats about their productivity. Partnership track associates need to be above 3,500 - or have some other tangible and obvious upside to them (a personal book of clients, for example - or possess some speciality such as patent bar membership). I can tell you that no associate at my firm has made partner since I started here with an average over their last five years (the offer usually comes between years 8 and 10 - if it doesn’t come by 10, you’re expected to understand you should be finding another job) of at least 3,500 billables/year. The lowest average in that time period was actually 3,578. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/45 "2009-04-22T00:55:33Z")
Here’s a question for you lawyers. What the F are you working on for 3500 a year? Consulting has a similar model where you have billable hours and targets. Problem is, you don’t just invent billable work. Usually some partner or other senior person has to generate the business. Every firm I’ve been in, when things get slow the management keeps coming around harping about “billable hours” but it’s like “dude! Go sell a fucking project!” ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/46 "2009-04-22T01:49:53Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I have a high paying job (sort of) because I spent a lot of time and trouble getting a good education in a specialized field that I like and because I have a lot of proven experience in getting the job done. > > I hate my job because my (new) boss treats me like an idiot, doesn’t mind calling me stupid in public, sucks off all the interesting parts of the job for himself and then he takes credit for any successes and blames me (and others) for any failures. Then, when it’s time for recognition, he and his friends get the rewards and everyone else gets a kick in the teeth. The money is the ONLY thing that keeps me working and that is turning into bare minimal effort. Kind of a self-fulfilling situation for the boss. > > I remind myself every day that I make good money - it could be worse - but such a job is soul draining. Haven’t you just described about 85% of all the white collar work out there, and a good portion of the blue and pink collar as well? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/47 "2009-04-22T02:23:43Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > So it is not surprising that someone can end up in an enviable position but feel soul-crushing, life-unbalancing angst over it, is it? It should be more surprising that there’s anyone who _doesn’t_. “Always you have been told that work is a curse and labour a misfortune. But I say to you that when you work you fulfil a part of earth’s furthest dream, assigned to you when that dream was born, And in keeping yourself with labour you are in truth loving life, And to love life through labour is to be intimate with life’s inmost secret.” -_Khalil Gibran, 1923_ Somehow I don’t think he was talking about 100 hours a week as a law firm “associate” flunky, or the endless litany of kissing the ass that chews yours that is so often entailed in making a living above the level of garbage truck driver. Something has been lost sight of, and I see many people counseling resignation to that fact, if not outright embrace of it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/48 "2009-04-22T14:12:58Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > It should be more surprising that there’s anyone who _doesn’t_. > > “Always you have been told that work is a curse and labour a misfortune. > But I say to you that when you work you fulfil a part of earth’s furthest dream, assigned to you when that dream was born, > And in keeping yourself with labour you are in truth loving life, > And to love life through labour is to be intimate with life’s inmost secret.” > -_Khalil Gibran, 1923_ > > Somehow I don’t think he was talking about 100 hours a week as a law firm “associate” flunky, or the endless litany of kissing the ass that chews yours that is so often entailed in making a living above the level of garbage truck driver. > > Something has been lost sight of, and I see many people counseling resignation to that fact, if not outright embrace of it. I wonder then what work he was talking about. I’ve worked in many ways in my life - from wedging clay in a pottery studeo and hauling boxes, to (now) being a lawyer, and in my experience all work can suck if the people you are working for are jerks and/or you have a bad attitute yourself towards it - and conversely all work can have its good points. The vast majority of the population does stuff they don’t really want to do in order to earn money - hauling crap in various forms, whether physical boxes of junk and piles of shit, to metaphorical “junk” in the form of sales, docket sheets and contracts. Is the poet saying that you shouldn’t haul crap? My sense is that the poet is counselling the sort of resignation you decry - that, in spite of the fact that you get sweaty, tense, stinky or wound up, working is overall a part of life to be embraced and not hated. But I could be wrong. Lucky is the person whose work involves no hauling of crap and is in fact their hobby as well. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/49 "2009-04-22T14:58:03Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > It should be more surprising that there’s anyone who _doesn’t_. > > “Always you have been told that work is a curse and labour a misfortune. > But I say to you that when you work you fulfil a part of earth’s furthest dream, assigned to you when that dream was born, > And in keeping yourself with labour you are in truth loving life, > And to love life through labour is to be intimate with life’s inmost secret.” > -_Khalil Gibran, 1923_ > > Somehow I don’t think he was talking about 100 hours a week as a law firm “associate” flunky, or the endless litany of kissing the ass that chews yours that is so often entailed in making a living above the level of garbage truck driver. Somehow I think the poet was talking out of his ass. I wonder if his mother and sisters felt the same way about working as seamstresses while putting him through poetry school. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/50 "2009-04-22T18:49:11Z")
> [@Shamozzle](#): > > I have a high paying job (for a high school grad). I hate it. > > The phone rings at any time of the day or night and I must do exactly what is requested of me, immediately. There’s no “I’m busy” or “Can it wait an hour?” or “My clothes are in the dryer” or “I’m at my kid’s baseball game”. Often it’s “Surprise family! I’m going to XYZ for a week! Bye!” _drives away_ > > So I find myself going on 700km drives at 2am, or working for 26 hours straight, or being awake for 36 hours, sleeping for six hours, and being awake for another 36 hours. > > And then there is the threat of mistakes. It would be very easy to make a mistake that costs hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to fix. This threat exists all day long. > > \ > > Cased Hole Wireline Operator. Heh, Ex Open Hole Wireline Operator here, thirty years back now. I was like you; loved the money but hated the spontaneity required at any and all hours. Remember Gearhart Owens, The GO Company? ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/51 "2009-04-22T22:27:26Z")
> [@Yarster](#): > > …my boss clearly thinks I need to be doing more to justify my salary. This is the one I hate and am wrestling with. The boss thinks that higher salaries and career advancement should be justified with ridiculously higher amounts of workload and task juggling–you should be suffering and paying penance for your higher pay by working the jobs and hours of multiple people as one. It’s never about how much you are saving or achieving with your experience, it is all about stuffing more budgeted hours into a single head. ---
**Author:** ![SomeBodyUK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@SomeBodyUK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeBodyUK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/52 "2009-04-23T02:03:56Z")
I have the boss from hell. I work as a financial analyst. Last week, I was tracking some payments from US to UK and back again. The thing is, there was an error at every single stage: USA to UK - error Uk internal stuff - error UK back to US - error. None of this shit was my fault, and I have no visibility of UK financials anyway. So I’m working on figuring it out, and it get’s to the stage where I can’t do anymore, I have to wait until the next day so I can contact somebody in UK to get further info. I go to my boss’s office at 1145pm and hand in what I’ve done, and tell him I’m going home, I’ll call UK in the morning to get further info. The fucker goes “No, no, no you can’t go yet, this needs to be done, you can’t leave yet”. I say,“You can’t force me to stay, I need to sleep!”. He says fine, and asks me to email him my work. Then this piece of shit sends back an email timestamped 1151pm, which says “SomeBodyUK, I have noted that you left without completing the work etc…” as an arse-covering email. I’d walk out of the job in a second, except, the economy’s really bad, and it’s even harder for me cos I need sponsorship. The team loathe the guy, and crack jokes about shooting him! 4 out of the 5 people he managed complained, and 2 quit within the last month. My current manager is the biggest micromanaging fucker around, he walk around the cubicles in the evening to see who’s there, and he has to review all our work before it gets sent on to upper management. He also has no life, he claims he has a girlfriend in Mexico, but because he’s in LA, all he ever does is work. He expects us to do the same shit. Thankfully, I’m due to have a new boss in a few weeks, and he seems a lot nicer. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/53 "2009-04-23T02:54:53Z")
You probably ought to define “high salary job” because that’s a very different thing to different people. To my wife, a non-practicing but still licensed lawyer, a high paying job is somewhere in the 200-300k range, with a low-paying job being in the 80-100 range. For me, an IT professional with 10 years of experience and a master’s degree, a high paying job would be in the 90-110k range, with low paying being in the 40-55 range. The two jobs I have quit were probably pretty high-paying by some people’s standards (45k 10 years ago when I was 26, and 52k about 7 years ago), but I didn’t really quit either because of the jobs themselves, but rather because I had better options. In the first case, my company was having hard times, and I wanted to be where the IT/computing action was in my state, so I moved and found the 2nd job. I quit the 2nd job because I felt like I was pigeonholed as a developer in an obscure language and didn’t like that career path, so I got accepted to grad school, then quit. Since then, it’s been layoffs, not voluntary termination. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/54 "2009-04-23T03:16:28Z")
> [@Aangelica](#): > > The one I walked away from was in Seattle, actually. I’ve since moved across the country - but I know that the number of billable hours the associates at my NY firm are told is the target is 2400, but the target they’re told and the actual target are not the same number. Associates making the stated target, but not the real target start getting invited to have little chats about their productivity. Partnership track associates need to be above 3,500 - or have some other tangible and obvious upside to them (a personal book of clients, for example - or possess some speciality such as patent bar membership). I can tell you that no associate at my firm has made partner since I started here with an average over their last five years (the offer usually comes between years 8 and 10 - if it doesn’t come by 10, you’re expected to understand you should be finding another job) of at least 3,500 billables/year. The lowest average in that time period was actually 3,578. Hmm. Put me down for a big :dubious: on all of this UNLESS you work at Wachtell. That is the only firm (OK, maybe also Cravath) where I would believe any of this. I’m not calling you a liar, I just think you are repeating bad information. Let me ask you this: what is your source for the information that the lowest average hours over 5 years for a group of associates that are in the partnership-range years was 3,578? Did someone tell you this or did you see reports from DTE or Carpe Diem or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/55 "2009-04-23T14:17:41Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Hmm. Put me down for a big :dubious: on all of this UNLESS you work at Wachtell. That is the only firm (OK, maybe also Cravath) where I would believe any of this. I’m not calling you a liar, I just think you are repeating bad information. > > Let me ask you this: what is your source for the information that the lowest average hours over 5 years for a group of associates that are in the partnership-range years was 3,578? Did someone tell you this or did you see reports from DTE or Carpe Diem or whatever? I’m not her, but she doesn’t say what you say she said. She said that 3,578 was the lowest 5-year average for an associate who actually made partner, not the lowest average for a group of associates in an age or tenure range. Her point was that this was the minimum level at which partnership was awarded, not that all associates in that age or tenure cohort billed more than that. As to her source of information, she’s talking about the firm where she works. Wouldn’t associates in a law firm have access to billing figures for all associates? These seem analogous to sales figures, and salespeople usually know what everyone is billing. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/56 "2009-04-23T14:33:05Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > This is the one I hate and am wrestling with. The boss thinks that higher salaries and career advancement should be justified with ridiculously higher amounts of workload and task juggling–you should be suffering and paying penance for your higher pay by working the jobs and hours of multiple people as one. > > It’s never about how much you are saving or achieving with your experience, it is all about stuffing more budgeted hours into a single head. Well that’s usually the tradeoff. If you want a job that pays $100 k-200 k, they typically will work you like crazy because they can. > [@bump](#): > > You probably ought to define “high salary job” because that’s a very different thing to different people. I think a lot of people who make in the $25 k- 60 k range or less are thinking “if you’re making $100 k - $200 k a year, what do you have to complain about?” ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/57 "2009-04-23T16:44:22Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > . As to her source of information, she’s talking about the firm where she works. Wouldn’t associates in a law firm have access to billing figures for all associates? These seem analogous to sales figures, and salespeople usually know what everyone is billing. This varies across firms. Also, I think she’s an administrative assistant, not an associate (not sure you meant to say otherwise, just saying). ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/58 "2009-04-23T16:51:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Hmm. Put me down for a big :dubious: on all of this UNLESS you work at Wachtell. That is the only firm (OK, maybe also Cravath) where I would believe any of this. I’m not calling you a liar, I just think you are repeating bad information. > > Let me ask you this: what is your source for the information that the lowest average hours over 5 years for a group of associates that are in the partnership-range years was 3,578? Did someone tell you this or did you see reports from DTE or Carpe Diem or whatever? Seven or eight years ago I thought about going to law school like most other people with my kind of education. I figured before I bit the bullet, I would try to paralegal for a year or so, get some experience, and maybe collect some recommendations. I live in NYC, have an ivy league degree, and Wachtell called me in to interview. I will never forget this interview for as long as I live. The paralegal coordinator was a shriveled bag of a woman with twitchy fingers and beady eyes. I asked her the same question I asked everyone I interviewed with: how is the culture at your firm different from other NYC firms of the same size? Her answer was brief and to the point. “You will wear a beeper. It will be on at all times. If you are paged at any hour of the day or night, you will come into the office. At Wachtell, we make paralegals and junior associates cry. All the time. So you might as well get used to it. Junior associates who bill fewer than 3500 hours per year are fired. Your pay will be $30,000 per year plus overtime. You will do nothing but administrative work and will have no opportunities for advancement. Is this clear?” I did end up working for two other firms for about 18 months. I decided not to become an attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/59 "2009-04-23T17:43:57Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > This varies across firms. Also, I think she’s an administrative assistant, not an associate (not sure you meant to say otherwise, just saying). Sloppy use of words on my part, due to ignorance of the legal world. In the sector of corporate America where I labor, we’re all “associates”, even the administrative assistants. I see in rereading her first post that she is currently a partner’s assistant and was formerly an associate in another firm. Seems plausible to me that she would have some access to billing figures, but you and she would know better than I. ETA: **Maeglin** - WOW! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388/60 "2009-04-23T17:52:35Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Seven or eight years ago I thought about going to law school like most other people with my kind of education. I figured before I bit the bullet, I would try to paralegal for a year or so, get some experience, and maybe collect some recommendations. > > I live in NYC, have an ivy league degree, and Wachtell called me in to interview. I will never forget this interview for as long as I live. The paralegal coordinator was a shriveled bag of a woman with twitchy fingers and beady eyes. I asked her the same question I asked everyone I interviewed with: how is the culture at your firm different from other NYC firms of the same size? > > Her answer was brief and to the point. > > “You will wear a beeper. It will be on at all times. If you are paged at any hour of the day or night, you will come into the office. At Wachtell, we make paralegals and junior associates cry. All the time. So you might as well get used to it. Junior associates who bill fewer than 3500 hours per year are fired. Your pay will be $30,000 per year plus overtime. You will do nothing but administrative work and will have no opportunities for advancement. Is this clear?” > > I did end up working for two other firms for about 18 months. I decided not to become an attorney. Wow, that was inspiring. 😃 I _am_, in point of fact, a lawyer, and all I have to say is - it isn’t like that for me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-you-hate-your-high-paying-job/493388.md?page=4)