# Why Didn't American Civilizations Develop the Wheel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 6, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005 "2008-06-06T12:21:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/1 "2008-06-06T12:21:28Z")
Yeah, I know – I’ve read about this many times, and before anybody else brings them up (although I guarantee that they will, since too many people don’t read the OP): 1.) There have been small “models” or “toys” found that have wheels, although I still no of no instances of human-sized vehicles with wheels. 2.) I know that American Indians used the Travois and similar dragging conveyances, and that they had no good roads or draft animals (except for in South America) Nevertheless, this doesn’t explain the lack of wheels. Consider: 1.) Some have arfgued that the first practical application of the wheel wasn’t transportation, but the potter’s wheel, which has been dated to circa 3000-4000BCE: [http://www.smith.edu/hsc/museum/ancient\_inventions/potterwheel2.html](http://www.smith.edu/hsc/museum/ancient_inventions/potterwheel2.html) [http://www.ceramicstoday.com/articles/potters\_wheel.htm](http://www.ceramicstoday.com/articles/potters_wheel.htm) American civilizations certainly did pottery, much of it very sophisticated. They largely used coil techniques. One would think that this would lead, naturally, to uses of bowls and the like for easy turning and manipulation, which would lead to the Potter’s Wheel. Only it didn’t. The Potter’s wheel was used all over the Old World, in Sumeria and Egypt, to Graeco-Roman civilization and later Europe. It was used in India and China. I strongly suspect (as I usually do) that it was independently invented in more than one place. But, despite all the ceramic work in the Americas, no one came up with it there. Why not? 2.) Even if you don;t have draft animals, using wheels maked moving large objects easy. Look at the Utah handcart pioneers. Look at the Egyptian Pyramid Builders. Using rollers would give you the first shove on the road to heels. Certainly folks in the americas moved large and heavy items, even away from the “high civilization” centers in South and Central America. Certainly people like the Aztecs and the Maya and the Inca moved massive stones around. Did they not ever use rollers to help the task? I can understand if the Incas, living with fewer trees, didn’t do this, but not the Mayans or Aztecs. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/2 "2008-06-06T12:37:32Z")
Wheels are only an advantage if you have even ground (or roads). It’s significant that the wheel developed in a region (Mesopotamia) with little vegetation and hard, dry ground. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/3 "2008-06-06T12:47:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Wheels are only an advantage if you have even ground (or roads). 1.) Not True. Wheels are useful in many circumstances. I use a wheelbarrow on uneven ground that;'s not packed. I’d much rather use it than carrying things. 2.) This doesn’t even remotely apply to potter’s wheels. 3.) The Americas are two big continents. Some parts of them ARE similar to Mesopotamia. They don’t have the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/4 "2008-06-06T13:07:34Z")
No American pottery (pre-Columbian) was wheel-turned; it was made by building up from a rope-like roll of clay, which was later smoothed. I would guess that the wheel did not evolve because of no large draft animals being available. Do modern Bolivian Indians hitch llamas to wheeled carts? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/5 "2008-06-06T13:08:42Z")
I agree with Cal. Just in North America these regions would qualify The Piedmont east of the Appalachians The great plans from the Gulf to Canada The desert southwest in many places ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/6 "2008-06-06T13:09:33Z")
The correct answer is “We don’t know.” But what fun is that? The Americans suffered from a lack of domesticated animals. They had the turkey, dog and three types of llamas. The llamas made lousy draft animals and never moved north of the Amazon. As a result, any innovation in one area never really moved too far to be refined elsewhere. With no meat animals, cities could not get too big. With no big cities, and no trade, complex civilizations never got very far. What about the Mayans? The Aztecs? Yes, that was about as far as it went. No trade routes, no empire building, more of a federation, not even any proper boats. ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/7 "2008-06-06T13:10:28Z")
Maybe they would have given time. Afterall, many “Old World” civilizations didn’t invent it either. They just borrowed the idea from other cultures. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/8 "2008-06-06T13:10:41Z")
> [@](#): > > No American pottery (pre-Columbian) was wheel-turned; it was made by building up from a rope-like roll of clay, which was later smoothed Quite right. I say this in the OP. My question is – why didn’t they then go on to develop the potter’s wheel. Especially if, as some claim, the Potter’s wheel really was the first practical use of the wheel\* \*I don’t know if that’s true; I don’t know how you’d prove it one way or the other. My whole point is that it’s not at all obvious to me that you need large carts pulled by draft animals as a necessary first step in developing the wheel, which everyone seems to assume. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/9 "2008-06-06T14:04:30Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] 1.) Not True. Wheels are useful in many circumstances. I use a wheelbarrow on uneven ground that;'s not packed. I’d much rather use it than carrying things. [/quote] But a modern wheelbarrow has things like ball bearings and steel or hard rubber rims. The technology is much more advanced that a pair of wood wheels on a wooden axle. > [@](#): > > 2.) This doesn’t even remotely apply to potter’s wheels. The wheel for transportation was developed at least a thousand years before the potter’s wheel. So if it took that long to come up with the idea of using a wheel for pottery, even with the wheel as an example, it’s doubtful it could have been developed without a wheel. > [@](#): > > 3.) The Americas are two big continents. Some parts of them ARE similar to Mesopotamia. They don’t have the wheel. But those parts are not highly populated. Mesopotamia had the type of land where a crude wheel would be an advantage AND a lot of people (and trade). If you’re managing on a subsistence basis in a rocky desert, there’s little need to move objects. It’s really only when you have some sort of trade where the wheel becomes an advantage (if the terrain is right). When you want to get a half ton of grain to Babylon, you need something better than a travois or sledge, but if you’re a hunter gatherer, that does the job just fine. Note that the wheel was not that obvious an invention: it did develop in Mesopotamia, but every other civilization borrowed the design. Other than the Aztec toys, Mesopotamia is the only civilization to invent the wheel. Egypt didn’t, even with similar land (the pyramids were built a thousand years after the Mesopotamians got the wheel, and thus the wheel/rollers used for it were a borrowed idea). Other than two cases (one trivial), no ancient civilization developed it, showing that it isn’t as obvious invention as we think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/10 "2008-06-06T14:18:35Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Using rollers would give you the first shove on the road to heels. Certainly folks in the americas moved large and heavy items, even away from the “high civilization” centers in South and Central America. Certainly people like the Aztecs and the Maya and the Inca moved massive stones around. Did they not ever use rollers to help the task? I can understand if the Incas, living with fewer trees, didn’t do this, but not the Mayans or Aztecs. [/QUOTE] If ‘rollers’ are just smooth logs, rather than actual constructions, I can’t see how archaeological evidence of these would be that easy to come by - they might have a secondary use as firewood for instance. Is the evidence for the ancient Egyptians’ use of rollers from paintings or other representations, or from elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/11 "2008-06-06T14:21:14Z")
> [@](#): > > But a modern wheelbarrow has things like ball bearings and steel or hard rubber rims. The technology is much more advanced that a pair of wood wheels on a wooden axle. Who says a Modern Wheelbarrow? There are 17th century wheelbarrow replicas not a mile from my house (at the reconstructed Iron Works) that consist of a “basket”, two handles, an axle, and a wheel. You don’t need more than that. Wheelbarrows are thousands of years old – you can see them in old artwork, and I believe they’re thought to have originated in China. > [@](#): > > The wheel for transportation was developed at least a thousand years before the potter’s wheel. So if it took that long to come up with the idea of using a wheel for pottery, even with the wheel as an example, it’s doubtful it could have been developed without a wheel. I usually hate when people do this, but I’ve got an excuse now: CITE? As I’ve said. some people theorize that the potter’s wheel represents the first use of the wheel. The two pages I cite in my OP put the potter’s wheel at 3,000-4,000 BCE. I don’t know how far back people place the transporation wheel. > [@](#): > > But those parts are not highly populated. Mesopotamia had the type of land where a crude wheel would be an advantage AND a lot of people (and trade). If you’re managing on a subsistence basis in a rocky desert, there’s little need to move objects. It’s really only when you have some sort of trade where the wheel becomes an advantage (if the terrain is right). When you want to get a half ton of grain to Babylon, you need something better than a travois or sledge, but if you’re a hunter gatherer, that does the job just fine. The sparsity of population of the Americas has become a prickly problem of late – lots of folks have revised estimates far upward from what it was thought to be a hundred years ago. And population centers in the Americas DID have large numbers of people – Mexico City was heavily populated. So were the other major civilizzation centers. As was Cahokia. And the indians certainly did participate in trade. > [@](#): > > Note that the wheel was not that obvious an invention: it did develop in Mesopotamia, but every other civilization borrowed the design. Once again, CITE? It’s not at all obvious to me that this is the case, and I strongly suspect it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/12 "2008-06-06T14:25:04Z")
Wheelbarrows: > **[Do You Know Who Really Invented the Wheelbarrow?](https://www.thoughtco.com/who-invented-the-wheelbarrow-1991685)** > > They changed the way we work. But do you know who really invented the wheelbarrow? A prime minister from Ancient China did! > **[Wheelbarrow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelbarrow)** > > A wheelbarrow is a small hand-propelled vehicle, usually with just one wheel, designed to be pushed and guided by a single person using two handles at the rear, or by a sail to push the ancient wheelbarrow by wind. The term "wheelbarrow" is made of two words: "wheel" and "barrow." "Barrow" is a derivation of the Old English "barew" which was a device used for carrying loads. > The wheelbarrow is designed to distribute the weight of its load between the wheel and the operator, so enabling the con... Note that, between those pages, we have wheelbarrows being invented in China and in Greece, then appearing again (invented again, I suspect) in Medieval Europe. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/13 "2008-06-06T14:27:06Z")
Potter’s wheel: > [@](#): > > It is not known when the potter’s wheel first came into use, but dates between about 8,000 BC to about 1,400 BC have been suggested. Many modern scholars suggest that it was first developed in Mesopotamia, although Egypt and China have also been claimed as possible places of origin. A stone potter’s wheel found at the Mesopotamian city of Ur in modern-day Iraq has been dated to about 3,129 BC, but fragments of wheel-thrown pottery of an even earlier date have been recovered in the same area. By the time of the early civilizations of the stone Age the use of the potter’s wheel had become widespread. Pottery could now be made in greater numbers with the aid of a machine, a first step towards world industrialization. > **[Potter's wheel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potter's_wheel)** > > In pottery, a potter's wheel is a machine used in the shaping (known as throwing) of clay into round ceramic ware. The wheel may also be used during the process of trimming excess clay from leather-hard dried ware that is stiff but malleable, and for applying incised decoration or rings of colour. Use of the potter's wheel became widespread throughout the Old World but was unknown in the Pre-Columbian New World, where pottery was handmade by methods that included coiling and beating. > A potter'... Potter’s Wheel and Transportation: > [@](#): > > Based on diagrams on ancient clay tablets, the earliest known use of this essential invention was a potter’s wheel that was used at Ur in Mesopotamia (part of modern day Iraq} as early as 3500 BC. The first use of the wheel for transportation was probably on Mesopotamian chariots in 3200 BC. It is interesting to note that wheels may have had industrial or manufacturing applications before they were used on vehicles. [http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/wheel.htm](http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/wheel.htm) ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/14 "2008-06-06T14:33:54Z")
Surely the lack of availability of curdled milk products had something to do with this. Most experts in the field agree that 'Where there’s a wheel, there’s a whey." The converse of this age-old axiom is true as well. Mods, you may now close this thread. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/15 "2008-06-06T14:37:36Z")
[Strangles **minlokway** , uses wheelbarrow to carry away corpse.] ---
**Author:** ![3waygeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/e95f7d/32.png) [@3waygeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3waygeek)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/16 "2008-06-06T14:40:43Z")
[The Master speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_250.html). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/17 "2008-06-06T14:59:01Z")
> [@](#): > > The Master speaks. > > 3waygeek Yeah, but look at the date. That’s all the Usually Accepted Answer, and I’m questioning the Accepted Wisdom, especially in view of more recent thoughts on the age of the potter’s wheel. ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/18 "2008-06-06T15:00:13Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] With no meat animals, cities could not get too big. With no big cities, and no trade, complex civilizations never got very far. What about the Mayans? The Aztecs? Yes, that was about as far as it went. No trade routes, no empire building, more of a federation, not even any proper boats. [/QUOTE] There actually were big cities, like [Cahokia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia) and [Tenochtitl](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenochtitl%C3%A1n), that are thought to be bigger than anything in Europe. Further, there were extensive trade routes, notably in the [Incan Empire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_road_system). ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/19 "2008-06-06T15:23:46Z")
Yes, the civilizations had internal trade, but little or no cross-pollination. The Conventional Wisdom is that the Americas had big cities, but I doubt it. It is unclear how these agriculturally-idle city dwellers were fed, especially with meat. I suspect the cities might have been empty for much of the year, or perhaps only inhabited for brief ‘golden ages.’ On the other hand, what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005/20 "2008-06-06T15:30:12Z")
> [@](#): > > The Conventional Wisdom is that the Americas had big cities, but I doubt it. It is unclear how these agriculturally-idle city dwellers were fed, especially with meat. I suspect the cities might have been empty for much of the year, or perhaps only inhabited for brief ‘golden ages.’ A direct reply to this would take us far afield, and into other matters that are controversial. But there’s no doubt about the population of Tenochtitlan/Mexico city – Cortez actually went there, and he and Bernal Diaz reported on it. Not a summer residence, either. I’m grateful for **libery** ’s corroboration, but I said the same thing upthread, using the same two cities. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-american-civilizations-develop-the-wheel/452005.md?page=2)