# Why didn't any of you bastards tell me how wonderful DOCTOR WHO is? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 15, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178 "2011-07-15T21:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/121 "2011-07-22T03:38:09Z")
Just wait. If they are there but not the center of attention…just wait. Even creaky, old villains can be part of Crowning Moments of Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/122 "2011-07-22T08:41:05Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > The Doctor has so messed up that whole timey-wimey thing that a single canon would be impossible. Well, that wouldn’t be a canon issue; that would be continuity. Which is an entirely different can of wibble. Several different cans, come to think of it. Some of them inside other cans. Personally, I’ve always tended to toss all that stuff into this big box I’ve got here, labelled “Just go with it”. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/123 "2011-07-22T09:27:01Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I didn’t say he reciprocated. I said that the simple fact that _she_ wants to fuck\* him\* – badly enough to tease him about it _on her wedding night to another man_ – adds an element to the relationship that makes _fraternal_ the wrong word. Amy: “Oooh Doctor, you soniced her.” Yeah, Amy wants to be soniced as well.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/124 "2011-07-22T14:41:26Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Well, that wouldn’t be a canon issue; that would be continuity. Which is an entirely different can of wibble. > > Several different cans, come to think of it. Some of them inside other cans. > > Personally, I’ve always tended to toss all that stuff into this big box I’ve got here, labelled “Just go with it”. Something that has actually been referenced in one of 11s episodes is that the RTD continuinty seems to have been reset. The Doctor asks Amy why she doesn’t know what Daleks are, and she says why would she as she’s never seen one, even though they featured quite prominently in the timeline of 10. The fact that this is actually mentioned in the show, and the Doctor is left questioning it, makes me think this is more than just a lampshading on the continuinity break and will in fact get turned into some kind of story development. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/125 "2011-07-22T15:08:34Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Something that has actually been referenced in one of 11s episodes is that the RTD continuinty seems to have been reset. The Doctor asks Amy why she doesn’t know what Daleks are, and she says why would she as she’s never seen one, even though they featured quite prominently in the timeline of 10. > > The fact that this is actually mentioned in the show, and the Doctor is left questioning it, makes me think this is more than just a lampshading on the continuinity break and will in fact get turned into some kind of story development. Also the giant Cyberman stomping London was forgotten. Didn’t that all have something to do with the fact that the universe was shrinking in that last series? ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/126 "2011-07-22T15:38:40Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Something that has actually been referenced in one of 11s episodes is that the RTD continuinty seems to have been reset. The Doctor asks Amy why she doesn’t know what Daleks are, and she says why would she as she’s never seen one, even though they featured quite prominently in the timeline of 10. > > The fact that this is actually mentioned in the show, and the Doctor is left questioning it, makes me think this is more than just a lampshading on the continuinity break and will in fact get turned into some kind of story development. Yes, it remains to be seen how much Moffatt’s going to make of that, but I think it was something that was going to have to be done at some point no matter who took over. Some fans complained bitterly about Russell The Davies setting so many of his episodes on present-day Earth, but, actually, only the first one is. The second is in the far future and the third is over a hundred years in the past. In the fourth, when the Doctor tries to return Rose to the present, she ends up one year in her (and the viewers’) future, and the series’ “present-day” remains one year ahead from that point on. Plus, of course, Davies is such a screaming fanboy that he couldn’t resist including continuity references to “near-future” episodes from the old series, which meant that by the end of the fifth episode, Doctor Who’s “present-day Earth” was actually the near future of an alternate reality, which only got further from our reality throughout his run. So if the show ever again wanted to include an audience-identification character from something approaching the real world, someone was going to have to press the reset button at some point. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/127 "2011-07-22T16:52:00Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Several different cans, come to think of it. Some of them inside other cans. “Yes, it’s _spacey-wacey_!” ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/128 "2011-07-22T16:59:40Z")
Oh, and I’d like to comment on a lot of the [del]complaints[/del] comments about this companion becoming super-powered and that companion becoming super-powered and the like: the way I read the series, it’s not about _Rose_ or _Donna_ or any specific person per se doing what they did, it’s about (a) a human being who has (b) been tutored by the Doctor doing something extraordinary. “He’s the Doctor,” as one said in a moment of clarity. “He _makes people better_.” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/129 "2011-07-22T17:07:57Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Didn’t that all have something to do with the fact that the universe was shrinking in that last series? It’s the crack. Makes people forget. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/130 "2011-07-22T17:16:07Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > We just watched **The Shakespeare Code** and thought it was probably the best episodes we’ve seen. Anything involving Cybermen or Daleks and the two of us know it won’t be a great, great episode. There are some good ones involving them, but I will totally agree that the Cybermen kind of suck as villains. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/131 "2011-07-22T17:21:57Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > It’s the crack. Makes people forget. But that’s not true - it makes things never exist. And if the Cyberking was going to have never existed, he would have had to stroll too close to it. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/132 "2011-07-22T19:58:13Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > But that’s not true - it makes things never exist. And if the Cyberking was going to have never existed, he would have had to stroll too close to it. > > -Joe No, man… the _crack._ Like, what the writers is on. Makes ‘em forget stuff an’ shit. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/133 "2011-07-22T20:44:05Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > But that’s not true - it makes things never exist. And if the Cyberking was going to have never existed, he would have had to stroll too close to it. Not necessarily: the causality chain could have been broken. If the cracks in time erased the Dalek infiltration of our universe from the Void, which would have explained Amy’s not knowing what Daleks were, they also erased the damage in spacetime that infiltration caused, which was what allowed Cybermen to come through from Pete’s World in the first place, even the ones that arrived in 1851. If the Cybermen never came through, no CyberKing. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/134 "2011-07-22T21:52:33Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Martha can go jump in a lake. She is good looking but doesn’t have a whole lot else going for her. > [@Alessan](#): > > See, I thought Martha was the most competant and professional of all the Companions, refusing to hog the spotlight and never acting like she was smarter than the Doctor. > > …but Martha was his assistant and protege. I agree, I liked Martha. [spoiler]I could have done without her falling in love with the Doctor, but eventually after she leaves and marries someone else, so that’s fixed. She actually goes on to become a competent and important person in her own right, after the Doctor leaves and she stays. And even when the takes the Osterhagen key, she doesn’t just act according to her orders, but continues to question the need, and instead tries a different tactic. Trying to find a way out, trying to make the situation better.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/135 "2011-07-26T16:48:50Z")
So thanks to this thread I started watching all the new episodes in order. I liked Eccleston as the Doctor, I liked Tennant fine too. I thought the stories were good, and loved the way they wove elements into a big weird story arc. I thought Rose was delicious, and enjoyed the interplay she had with both Doctors. Martha was awesome: a strong, smart character who was also fun to watch with the Doctor. Donna was my favorite, tho, as I liked her cheeky ways and enjoyed watching her be her own special kind of smart and actually helping the Doctor; she is the first companion I can remember who actually made the Doctor into a better person. I agree that the way she left the Doctor was complete and utter fucking bullshit, btw; one of the worst decisions/moments of the series, even worse than the celery stalk that #5 wore. But then came S5E1, and Matt Smith. I’ve watched 2 shows with him in it, and while he’s okay (barely) as the Doctor, and I think Amy is cool, I have to question the writing. I mean, do they get any better? Or is every episode from now on going to be filled with crappy dialogue and plots that make no sense? And what the fuck happened to cause the regeneration anyway? Did I miss a show somehow (I’m watching them streaming on Netflix)? Does the direction get any better, or will it continue to be slap-dash and shoddy? And judging by the posts here, am I gonna have to sit thru even more bullshit with the Daleks and the Cybermen, even tho they keep getting killed off or sent to other dimensions all the fucking time? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/136 "2011-07-26T17:04:59Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And what the fuck happened to cause the regeneration anyway? Did I miss a show somehow (I’m watching them streaming on Netflix)? I’m guessing you missed the “year of specials”. \*The Last Doctor \*and _the Planet of the Dead_ are both skippable, but \*the Waters of Mars \*and especially _the End of Time_ (a 2-parter) are terrific, and feature the best work Tennant did in the role. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/137 "2011-07-26T17:16:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m guessing you missed the “year of specials”. \*The Last Doctor \*and _the Planet of the Dead_ are both skippable, but \*the Waters of Mars \*and especially _the End of Time_ (a 2-parter) are terrific, and feature the best work Tennant did in the role. Nitpick: _The Next Doctor_, not _The Last Doctor_. And if you skip _Planet of the Dead_, you’ll miss some of the greatest fanboy love of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/139 "2011-07-26T17:49:45Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > And if you skip _Planet of the Dead_, you’ll miss some of the greatest fanboy love of all time. Yeah… didn’t like her. I don’t mind if a female character is essentially a male fantasy, but this one \*knew \*she was a male fantasy, which made her tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/140 "2011-07-26T18:03:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah… didn’t like her. I don’t mind if a female character is essentially a male fantasy, but this one \*knew \*she was a male fantasy, which made her tiresome. Not fanservice, fanboy love. Malcolm Taylor, proof that the people who make _Doctor Who_ love the people who love _Doctor Who_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178/141 "2011-07-26T18:10:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah… didn’t like her. I don’t mind if a female character is essentially a male fantasy, but this one \*knew \*she was a male fantasy, which made her tiresome. By that logic, shouldn’t I have gotten tired of Leela? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-any-of-you-bastards-tell-me-how-wonderful-doctor-who-is/589178.md?page=8)