# Why didn't Jesus write anything down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712 "2011-02-26T17:21:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/41 "2011-02-26T21:42:02Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I have read that five to ten percent of the population of the Roman Empire was literate, and that this was higher among the Jews. The oral tradition is good for accounts of events, but not for laws and theology. This is overstating it rather: I was looking at ancient literacy last year for a post, and found Hebrew literacy at that period to have been around 3%; and, as the author, Meir Bar-Ilan, pointed out, reading was not an economic necessity in a rural land, and this was still 6 times better than the Egyptians of long before: _Even if we assume that in cities (as happens all over the world in urban areas in comparison to rural areas), such as Tiberias, for example, the literacy rate was double and even triple in comparison with the towns, still the figures of literacy are around 2-15%. With the assumption that the rural population was around 70% (with 0% literacy), 20% of urban population (with 1-5% literacy), and 10% of highly urban population (with 2-15% literacy), the total population literacy is still very low. Thus, it is no exaggeration to say that the total literacy rate in the Land of Israel at that time (of Jews only, of course), was probably less than 3%._ _At first glance this figure looks quite low, and maybe too low. However, in a traditional society, knowing how to read was not a necessity: neither for economic reasons, nor for intellectual ones. On the contrary. Why should a farmer send his son to learn how to read when it entails a waste of working time (=money)? Why should he himself learn how to read if his culture is based on oral tradition (though with a written Torah)? According to the Torah, there is no need to read or write, except for writing the Mezuza, Tefilin, and the Torah itself. However, for these purposes there was always a scribe, so a Jew in antiquity could fulfill the commandments of the Torah while being illiterate. Not only that, but 3% of the total population seems to be high in comparison with other cultures. In ancient Egypt, a land with a lot of scribes, only half a percent were literate._ **[Were People Literate in the Time of Christ ?](https://www.evidenceforchristianity.org/index.php?option=com_custom_content&task=view&id=4172)** Further, other cultures, such as the Druids and the Axtecs managed Law and Theology fine without writing. It may even have given the clerics more power since there was nothing to check their decisions against. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/42 "2011-02-26T22:22:01Z")
What,\* paperwork \*you want he should do, and get his fingers all tired, maybe? Oy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/43 "2011-02-26T22:22:35Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > One possibility: He did write it down, and Pilate and Caiphas had the writings destroyed so no one would try to, y’know, base a religion off his rantings or anything. > > If he were illiterate, weren’t most of the Apostles illiterate as well, including at least three of the credited writers of the Gospels? “Literate = Smart” was likely not a common expectation back then. Only to of the gospels are traditionally attributed to apostles (Matthew and John), and even those traditions are regarded by modern scholarly consensus as spurious (Matthew patently so, John perhaps based on some kind of authentic anecdotal core, but one which is still greatly larded with succeeding layers of fictional miracle stories, post-apostolic theology, invented speeches and other appended elements). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/44 "2011-02-26T22:43:18Z")
Who’s to say he didn’t ? Just because the Bible doesn’t include a Gospel of Jesus and we haven’t found one (yet) doesn’t mean there never was one. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/45 "2011-02-26T22:49:07Z")
It’s highly unlikely that anything written by Jesus himself would not have been preserved, revered and endlessly copied from the start. It’s also highly unlikely that the existence of anything written by Jesus himself would not have been mentioned anywhere in any early Christian literature. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/46 "2011-02-26T22:52:47Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Who’s to say he didn’t ? Just because the Bible doesn’t include a Gospel of Jesus and we haven’t found one (yet) doesn’t mean there never was one. True, in the absolute sense. But, AFAIK, no mention of such a document has been made in the next 200 years of writings, which tends to discount that possibility. And I just noticed that DtC is saying much the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![trabajabamos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@trabajabamos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trabajabamos)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/47 "2011-02-26T22:52:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Who’s to say he didn’t ? Just because the Bible doesn’t include a Gospel of Jesus and we haven’t found one (yet) doesn’t mean there never was one. I’d venture that it is hard to be certain of anything if you are going to take this tact. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/48 "2011-02-27T00:15:05Z")
> [@trabajabamos](#): > > That said, if you contend that this verse is proof of Jesus’ literacy, will you now conjecture regarding the matter of why a literate Jesus didn’t write down any of his teachings? Answered in my above post, re-posted below. It is a bit hard to understand, because of the concept of ‘oneness’ is hard to understand. God’s way is anti-individuality. In the Kingdom of God everyone is God’s child, and there is also only one child at the same time, and will forever only be one child of God, yet that one child will be all of us. It is the meaning of the statement that Jesus and the Father are one, and that God is one. Because the saints are also every bit as Jesus as Jesus, as they wrote it was Jesus writing. Jesus as the man we know from scriptures, was not meant to be the one who wrote, that was the job of other men, but the same God. From my above posting: > [@](#): > > from scriptures is appears it was not for Him, as the man, to do. Jesus as the man, is the head of a larger body (that larger body is also Jesus). He is a part of the whole, and He as the man was not the hand. (In scriptures He is the head) > > Jesus works and lives and writes though His people, who are part of Him. He is one with them as your hand is one with your body. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/49 "2011-02-27T00:16:49Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > That particular passage is one that many scholars believe was added later. It does not appear in the earlier documents they have, appears as a story added in the margin of others, and then fully inserted in later documents. > > I know that doesn’t follow certain beliefs about inspiration but those are the facts. Thanks, I am aware of the ‘facts’, as you are aware of ‘inspiration’.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![trabajabamos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@trabajabamos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trabajabamos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/50 "2011-02-27T00:37:32Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Answered in my above post, re-posted below. It is a bit hard to understand, because of the concept of ‘oneness’ is hard to understand. God’s way is anti-individuality. In the Kingdom of God everyone is God’s child, and there is also only one child at the same time, and will forever only be one child of God, yet that one child will be all of us. It is the meaning of the statement that Jesus and the Father are one, and that God is one. > > Because the saints are also every bit as Jesus as Jesus, as they wrote it was Jesus writing. Jesus as the man we know from scriptures, was not meant to be the one who wrote, that was the job of other men, but the same God. > > From my above posting: > > > [@](#): > > > > from scriptures is appears it was not for Him, as the man, to do. Jesus as the man, is the head of a larger body (that larger body is also Jesus). He is a part of the whole, and He as the man was not the hand. (In scriptures He is the head) > > > > Jesus works and lives and writes though His people, who are part of Him. He is one with them as your hand is one with your body. I appreciate you taking the time to respond but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to tell me. This all sounds very metaphysical. You seem to be suggesting that, in some sense, any time anyone writes anything down at all, it is actually God doing the writing. Is that it? What sect of Christianity would this be? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/51 "2011-02-27T03:11:07Z")
Jesus didn’t write anything down because they hadn’t invented the Cross pen. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/52 "2011-02-27T03:42:48Z")
> [@trabajabamos](#): > > I appreciate you taking the time to respond but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to tell me. This all sounds very metaphysical. You seem to be suggesting that, in some sense, any time anyone writes anything down at all, it is actually God doing the writing. Is that it? What sect of Christianity would this be? You’re new here, but those of us who have been around awhile can tell you that **kanicbird** has his own, unique, perspective on religious matters. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/53 "2011-02-27T03:55:54Z")
Wouldn’t a carpenter skilled in the carpentry of that time pretty much have to know how to read and write? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/54 "2011-02-27T04:03:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Wouldn’t a carpenter skilled in the carpentry of that time pretty much have to know how to read and write? No. The Gospels don’t actually say that Jesus was a carpenter anyway. They say he was a _tekton_ (or at least the son of a _tekton_), which does not mean “carpenter,” but literally means “builder,” and refers to an underclass of what were essentially day laborors - basically people who were hired to do piece work for any number of building or repair projects, including cutting stone, laying brick fixing walls or buildings or docks - grunt work for a day or two often not even paid for with cash but with food. It was a hand to mouth existence, and a social class below even that of the peasants who farmed or fished. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/55 "2011-02-27T04:05:29Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > One possibility: He did write it down, and Pilate and Caiphas had the writings destroyed so no one would try to, y’know, base a religion off his rantings or anything. Another possibility: He did write it down and between the Roman destruction of Jerusalem (which more of less wiped out the Jews who believed Jesus was the Jewish Messiah not the start of new religion) and the campaigns of Paul to make Christianity a new religion among the Gentiles, the writing were destroyed. There is vast difference between many of the religious views attributed to Jesus and the religious views attributed to Paul and that’s just in the books that survived to be accepted by the Christian mainstream. The writings may have existed, but been declared herectical. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/56 "2011-02-27T04:06:12Z")
Interesting. Thanks, **Dio**. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/57 "2011-02-27T04:14:17Z")
It’s at least conceivable that he wrote down some sayings, which were incorporated into the Gospels & did not survive as a book in their own right. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/58 "2011-02-27T04:21:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Interesting. Thanks, **Dio**. No problem. My reading and research on the highly stratified, and brutally repressive, economic and social classes of the world Jesus lived in have been highly enlightening to me. Understanding that context really provides a lot of insight into his mission and his appeal. Here was a guy who was saying that those on the very bottom, those below even the peasant classes - the utterly destitute, the prostitutes, the beggars, the lepers, the winos and the cripples - were the heirs to the Kingdom of God. That “the last will be first and the first will be last,” that there would be a complete reversal of the social order and the “rich” (a word which had much different conotations in Jesus’ time than it does now - he was talking about a very small and extremely brutal and exploitive overclass in a system which had virtually no vertical mobility) would find themselves with nothing, while the poor and oppressed would find themselves with everything. It’s no wonder that Christianity was exceptionally popular with slaves, and that they were among the largest segment of early converts in the Roman empire. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/59 "2011-02-27T04:24:51Z")
Very interesting too. I’ve learned more about the bible, biblical records and life during Jesus’ time here on the boards than I ever did prior to joining. Thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712/60 "2011-02-27T04:32:00Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > That particular passage is one that many scholars believe was added later. It does not appear in the earlier documents they have, appears as a story added in the margin of others, and then fully inserted in later documents. > . Any idea about the reasons for such an apparently irrelevant interpolation (“at some point, for unknown reasons, Jesus wrote nobody knows what in the dust” doesn’t seem like something one would feel an urge to add)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-jesus-write-anything-down/572712.md?page=4)