# Why didn't the Anglo-Saxons replace Saturday with a Norse god? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 13, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066 "2012-06-13T21:27:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/21 "2012-06-14T16:25:01Z")
Sparrows. ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/22 "2012-06-14T16:35:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Psychopomps? One who assists the souls of the dead to the afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/23 "2012-06-14T16:41:00Z")
Mercury and Odin are sparrows? This isn’t getting any clearer to me. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/24 "2012-06-14T16:42:27Z")
> [@jbaker](#): > > One who assists the souls of the dead to the afterlife. Ah, okay. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Valkyrie\_Wannabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@Valkyrie\_Wannabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valkyrie_Wannabe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/25 "2012-06-14T21:14:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Um, guys, I believe that the OP’s parentheticals were _NOT_ meant as translations of the planetary names but as ALTERNATES, i.e. the intended reading of the parentheticals would be (italics for the implicit content): > > “Dies Solis (\*or, after Christianity, Dies \*Dominica) = day of the Sun (_or, day of the_ Lord) = …” > “Dies Saturni (_or, after Christianity, Dies_ Sabati) = day of Saturn (_or, day of the_ Sabbath) = …” Sorry for the confusion, everyone. I did mean Sun OR Lord and Saturn OR Sabbath. I didn’t mean to imply that I thought they were the same thing. And I have heard Friday being referenced to both Frigg and Freya. I mentioned Freya here because of the correlation with Venus, goddess of love and beauty. Thanks for all the helpful responses, though it still doesn’t sound like there’s a definitive explanation for my question. Perhaps I shall ask the master himself, and see if Cecil can shed some light on this mystery! ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/26 "2012-06-14T22:24:44Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s why an archaic Hebrew term for pagans is “worshipers of stars and zodiacs”. Likewise, the phrase for “druid” in Hebrew is “Tree Priest” (sorry, I couldn’t find the Hebrew text on-line to copy it here, but it’s something like “aytz kohain” – **Alessan** , help us out here!). The on-line Hebrew translations I find are simply phonetic transcriptions of the word “druid”. I learned that from a Hebrew edition of “Asterix and Cleopatra” that I have. [http://www.asterix.com/encyclopedia/translations/asterix-in-hebrew.html](http://www.asterix.com/encyclopedia/translations/asterix-in-hebrew.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/27 "2012-06-14T22:39:10Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > … I had a look to see if I could find the Norse word for the planet Saturn but didn’t find much, so I’m not sure if the explanation that it was named after the planet is that relevant. I’d guess they had their own name for it. Perhaps there was no good equivalent of Saturn in Norse mythology (they didn’t seem to have a god of time). I’d like to point out that there are two gods with similar names. Chronos is the god of time. He is usually portrayed as an old, wise man and has been secularized as ‘Father Time’. On the other hand, the titan Cronus is the early god of agriculture and is famous for his sickle with which he castrated his father, Ouranos the god of heaven. The Romans called this god, Saturn. ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/28 "2012-06-14T22:58:59Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I’d like to point out that there are two gods with similar names. > Chronos is the god of time. He is usually portrayed as an old, wise man and has been secularized as ‘Father Time’. > On the other hand, the titan Cronus is the early god of agriculture and is famous for his sickle with which he castrated his father, Ouranos the god of heaven. The Romans called this god, Saturn. The Romans identified their god Saturn with the Greek Cronus, but the two are actually strikingly dissimilar. Saturn was a god of agriculture and plenty; the Saturnalia was in his honor, and he presided over the golden age. Cronus was a Titan who castrated and deposed his father, ate his own children, and was subsequently banished to Tartarus. They don’t seem to have had much in common, except that Cronus was the father of Zeus and Saturn was the father of his Roman counterpart, Jupiter or Jove. Chronos (L. Chronus) is unrelated. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/29 "2012-06-14T23:05:04Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Likewise, the phrase for “druid” in Hebrew is “Tree Priest” (sorry, I couldn’t find the Hebrew text on-line to copy it here, but it’s something like “aytz kohain” – **Alessan** , help us out here!). The on-line Hebrew translations I find are simply phonetic transcriptions of the word “druid”. > > I learned that from a Hebrew edition of “Asterix and Cleopatra” that I have. > [http://www.asterix.com/encyclopedia/translations/asterix-in-hebrew.html](http://www.asterix.com/encyclopedia/translations/asterix-in-hebrew.html) Um, why would there be a word for druid in ancient Hebrew? In modern Hebrew, the word is no doubt a calque on the etymology of druid, dru- “tree / oak tree” + -wid “knowing.” ETA: I suppose rabbis in the Roman Empire might have wanted to discuss the religious customs of the Galatians, only a few hundred miles away, but if they did, they didn’t make it into the literary record. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/30 "2012-06-14T23:55:12Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I’d like to point out that there are two gods with similar names. > Chronos is the god of time. He is usually portrayed as an old, wise man and has been secularized as ‘Father Time’. > On the other hand, the titan Cronus is the early god of agriculture and is famous for his sickle with which he castrated his father, Ouranos the god of heaven. The Romans called this god, Saturn. Ah yes, thanks for pointing that out. I think I just read that he was the god of time somewhere while reading about this (I noticed it’s mentioned on Wikipedia) and didn’t think to check that. Strangely I don’t know much about Roman gods - I know the Greek ones far better - and didn’t even know who Saturn is equivalent to. But I did at least know the difference between Chronus and Cronus! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/31 "2012-06-15T08:35:54Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Likewise, the phrase for “druid” in Hebrew is “Tree Priest” (sorry, I couldn’t find the Hebrew text on-line to copy it here, but it’s something like “aytz kohain” – **Alessan** , help us out here!). The on-line Hebrew translations I find are simply phonetic transcriptions of the word “druid”. > > I learned that from a Hebrew edition of “Asterix and Cleopatra” that I have. > [http://www.asterix.com/encyclopedia/translations/asterix-in-hebrew.html](http://www.asterix.com/encyclopedia/translations/asterix-in-hebrew.html) I’m pretty sure that that’s a personal translation of the guy who did the comic (also, it would probably be “cohen etzim”). I’ve mostly just seen “[druidim](http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%93%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%90%D7%99%D7%93%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA)”. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/32 "2012-06-15T15:11:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Not just European. It’s at least “Indo-European.” Not in the sense of having any common pre-Greek Indo-European ancestor for the practice. The deity names for the seven days of the week are a Hellenistic Greek innovation that spread from them to neighboring civilizations, including India. > [@Acsenray](#): > > In Bengali, it’s the same planets: > > robibar = sun day > shombar = moon day > mongolbar = Mars day > budhbar = Mercury day > brihoshpotibar = Jupiter day > shukrobar = Venus day > shonibar = Saturn day That’s because the Bengali names were derived from the corresponding Sanskrit ones (_ravi_, _soma_, _mangala_, _budha_, _brhaspati_, _sukra_, _sani_), which in turn were adopted in imitation of the weekday/deity associations in Greek astrology. Indian astronomy/astrology/calendrics did not have the seven-day week or the associated-deity weekday names before the influence of Greek sources in the early common era. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/33 "2012-06-15T18:57:14Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Because the days are named after the planets (thus the inclusion of sun and moon), and it’s the other planets are named after the gods. > > I don’t know whether we have a recorded planet name for Saturn in Old English, though. I think it is possible that the Norse were not aware that Saturn is a planet. Because it moves so slowly against the background of the stars, its planethood is a good deal less obvious than that of the other naked eye planets, and it can easily be taken for no more than a bright star. I do not have a cite to hand, but I believe I have read that even among the early middle eastern civilizations (Mesopotamia, Egypt) who first codified astronomical and calendrical knowledge, and made the star/planet distinction, it was recognized to be a planet rather later than were Mercury, Venus, Mars and Jupiter, all of whose motions are more obvious. I am not sure what implications this might have for the naming of the days, however. ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/34 "2012-06-15T20:24:55Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I think it is possible that the Norse were not aware that Saturn is a planet. Because it moves so slowly against the background of the stars, its planethood is a good deal less obvious than that of the other naked eye planets, and it can easily be taken for no more than a bright star. I do not have a cite to hand, but I believe I have read that even among the early middle eastern civilizations (Mesopotamia, Egypt) who first codified astronomical and calendrical knowledge, and made the star/planet distinction, it was recognized to be a planet rather later than were Mercury, Venus, Mars and Jupiter, all of whose motions are more obvious. > > I am not sure what implications this might have for the naming of the days, however. No, the Norse (i.e., the Germans) did not name the days after the planets. The Romans had days named after the planets, sun, and moon, but the planets had the names of gods. When the Germans named the days, they used a calque, or loan translation, of the Latin names. For Sunday and Monday the Germans calqued the astronomical bodies (Latin dies Solis, or day of the sun, became English Sunday); for Tuesday through Friday the Germans calqued the names of the gods (Latin dies Jovis, or day of Jove, became English Thursday, or Thor’s day). But for whatever reason, probably because they thought there wasn’t a German equivalent, the Germans did not substitute one of their own gods when calqueing Latin dies Saturni. I don’t know, and don’t know if anyone knows, what names the Germans gave to the planets 1500 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/35 "2012-06-15T22:21:11Z")
> [@jbaker](#): > > No, the Norse (i.e., the Germans) did not name the days after the planets. The Romans had days named after the planets, sun, and moon, but the planets had the names of gods. When the Germans named the days, they used a calque, or loan translation, of the Latin names. For Sunday and Monday the Germans calqued the astronomical bodies (Latin dies Solis, or day of the sun, became English Sunday); for Tuesday through Friday the Germans calqued the names of the gods (Latin dies Jovis, or day of Jove, became English Thursday, or Thor’s day). But for whatever reason, probably because they thought there wasn’t a German equivalent, the Germans did not substitute one of their own gods when calqueing Latin dies Saturni. > > I don’t know, and don’t know if anyone knows, what names the Germans gave to the planets 1500 years ago. The question is not about how the Norse (or the Germans - hardly the same) named the days, but why **we** , in modern English, name some days after Norse Gods and others, Saturday in particular, after planets. ---
**Author:** ![jbaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jbaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbaker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/36 "2012-06-15T22:32:02Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > The question is not about how the Norse (or the Germans - hardly the same) named the days, but why **we** , in modern English, name some days after Norse Gods and others, Saturday in particular, after planets. It’s because English is a Germanic language. Our core vocabulary, including the names of the days of the week, derives from earlier Germanic antecedents. My reference to “the Norse” was because of your error; we don’t actually care about the Norse. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/37 "2012-06-16T19:01:46Z")
The irony is that Saturn is the one planet that was dropped from the weekly lineup in Romance languages; they switched to _sabato_. Sabbath. So it makes a sort of symmetry. If Saturn was dropped by the post-Romans, at least it was adopted by the Teutons. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/38 "2012-06-16T19:04:28Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > The irony is that Saturn is the one planet that was dropped from the weekly lineup in Romance languages; they switched to _sabato_. Sabbath. So it makes a sort of symmetry. If Saturn was dropped by the post-Romans, at least it was adopted by the Teutons. It’s still around in Welsh _Sadwrn_ and Breton _Sadorn_, as well: not Romance languages, of course, but still direct borrowings from Latin during the Roman period. ---
**Author:** ![Hendrik\_Gert\_Strydom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@Hendrik\_Gert\_Strydom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hendrik_Gert_Strydom)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/39 "2012-08-27T07:10:48Z")
I link all the days of the week, as with Sunday and Monday (read Moonday), to celestial bodies. Most people have seen a solar eclipse, and are probably aware that this happens as soon as the Moon moves in front of the earth’s observational point of the Sun. In the same way the Moon sometimes occults a planet, but more often occults a star. As a consequence of the inclination of the Moon’s orbit with respect to the ecliptic and the movement of the nodes of the Moon’s orbit, all the stars in a belt of 10° around the ecliptic are occulted at some time during a period of about nine years. Among these are the bright stars Aldebaran [Tuesday was named in honour of the Old Norse Tyr], Regulus [Wednesday, Wodan’s day, Wodan is the Germanic name for Odin], Antares [Thursday was named after the Old Norse god of thunder and lightning, Thor. Compare Old Norse Þorsdagr – Thor’s day, Old English Þunresdæg], Spica [Friday was named after Frigg, ‘fruit’ as in the Teutonic languages ‘Frucht’, and was thus also called Frïgedaeg in Old English] and the star cluster Praesepe [The stellar cluster Praesepe, also called the Beehive, forms part of the star sign Cancer. Saturday can thus possibly be linked to the Zodiac sign of Cancer, which is mythically referred to as the fourth hall Sokkvabekk ‘the descending stream’, a landscape of waterfalls where Saga (see The Ballad of Grimnir) and her father Odin daily went with golden cups to drink from the stream of remembrance. Saga, ‘saga’ from segja ‘tell’, was the goddess of history and second highest, after Frigg. How, then is it possible that Saturday became linked to Saturn? One can also ask whether Saturday was not at that time, as it has been for centuries past, the weekly bath day, as in the meaning of the Old Norse Saturday, Laugardagr and the Icelandic laugardagur, ‘Washing Day’. Also whether Satyr, the obscene god of the woods, was not implicated because men and women were all together at the bathing places.] ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066/40 "2012-08-27T23:36:35Z")
> [@Valkyrie\_Wannabe](#): > > Dies Solis (Dominica) = day of the Sun (Lord) = Dimanche/Domingo/Domenica > Dies Lunae = day of the Moon = Lundi/Lunes/Lunedi > Dies Martis = day of Mars = Mardi/Martes/Martedi > Dies Mercurii = day of Mercury = Mercredi/Miercoles/Mercoledi > Dies Lovis = day of Jupiter = Jeudi/Jueves/Giovedi > Dies Veneris = day of Venus = Vendredi/Viernes/Venerdi > Dies Saturni (Sabbati)= day of Saturn (Sabbath) = Samedi/Sabado/Sabato Why that particular order? It doesn’t seem to match the order of the importance, age, or power of the gods; the brightness of the planets; the apparent distance of the planets (based on how fast they move in relation to the stars), etc. What’s the deal? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-anglo-saxons-replace-saturday-with-a-norse-god/625066.md?page=3)