# Why didn't the Dem pass UHC? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000 "2010-01-30T05:02:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/61 "2010-02-03T19:22:03Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Money. The health care industry set 1500 lobbyists loose on the pols. Yes, it’s easy to understand the influence that industry lobbyists can bring. What’s less easy to grasp is why the Dems (who received resounding approval in the 2008 elections) should hold themselves in thrall to weak, divided Pubs. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/62 "2010-02-03T19:26:53Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Yes, it’s easy to understand the influence that industry lobbyists can bring. What’s less easy to grasp is why the Dems (who received resounding approval in the 2008 elections) should hold themselves in thrall to weak, divided Pubs. Wait, when did the Pubs get weak and divided? I thought they were an unyeilding and uniform wall of NO. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/63 "2010-02-03T19:33:35Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > This isn’t really an explanation. What you’re saying is that although the Pubs are - and appear to be - weak and divided, the Dems fear them for more or less imaginary reasons. Further, the President is mysteriously incapable of leading them away from these imagined constraints toward actions the electorate would strongly approve.. “The Democrats” is a category that includes Obama, naturally. And I fail to see how it isn’t an explanation. The Republicans don’t want UHC, therefore there won’t be any UHC. The Democrats don’t matter because they have zero ability to stand up to the Republicans regardless of the numbers in office. Thanks to the cowardice of the Democrats, the Republicans have veto power over any proposal, and they don’t want UHC under any circumstances, or for the government to succeed at anything whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/64 "2010-02-03T19:38:25Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > This. Fact is, they were not as effective in communicating the merits of UHC as were the Republicans in demonizing them. No amount of whining will change that fact. > > This is what happens with conciliation. Hillary was right. You need to start out with the proposition that UHC is the goal then go from there. Debate its merits, win the arguments. As it were, Obama started with a pansy-assed version of UHC and the Republicans smelled weakness and pounced. Slight correction: they weren’t as effective in communicating the merits of UHC as the Republicans were in demonizing them… in one sentence or less. Fact is, Democrats just aren’t good at soundbite politics, while Republicans are brilliant at it. I suppose it might just be that Republican ideals lend themselves better to catchphrasing, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/65 "2010-02-03T19:38:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “The Democrats” is a category that includes Obama, naturally. And I fail to see how it isn’t an explanation. The Republicans don’t want UHC, therefore there won’t be any UHC. The Democrats don’t matter because they have zero ability to stand up to the Republicans regardless of the numbers in office. Thanks to the cowardice of the Democrats, the Republicans have veto power over any proposal, and they don’t want UHC under any circumstances, or for the government to succeed at anything whatsoever. This is a very anthropic-biased view of politics, akin the [Green Lantern Theory of Geopolitics.](http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2006/07/10/the_green_lantern_theory_of_ge/) Facts on the ground matter much more than supposed character traits of entire organizations. (Bet you think “Apple employees are hip” and “Germans are stodgy.”) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/66 "2010-02-03T20:36:02Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Facts on the ground matter much more than supposed character traits of entire organizations. (Bet you think “Apple employees are hip” and “Germans are stodgy.”) In other words, the “let’s pretend that the members of organizations don’t have anything in common” strategy of excusing bad behavior. Often coupled with a speech about how “one rotten apple doesn’t spoil the barrel” every time yet another a member of the group gets caught doing something outright illegal/scandalous. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/67 "2010-02-03T21:00:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, what I’m saying is that if you elect a Democrat instead of a Republican, he’ll vote the way the Republicans would on most issues; in large part because that’s what they are paid off to do. Outside of some social issues that business doesn’t care about enough to bribe them over and the sheer craziness of the Republicans, there’s little advantage to choosing one over the other; they vote how they are paid. > > Corrupt cowards. Paid off by the insurance industry, terrified of the Republicans. The last HC bill gave unions a tax break so it would appear that big unions are just as politically viable as any other group. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/68 "2010-02-03T22:30:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I fail to see how it isn’t an explanation. It isn’t an explanation until you explain why Dems kowtow to Pubs. Thus far you seem only to assert that this is so without supplying any reason. “Cowardice” is at best simply another name for the behavior, not a reason for it to exist. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/69 "2010-02-14T21:29:07Z")
When someone calls Republicans reactionary, militaristic, nationalistic, fundamentalist, misogynistic, homophocic, anti-intellectual, greedy, etc., they say back to you, “I don’t care what you call me, I’ll do what I think is right from my POV” and keep pushing their agenda. When someone calls Democrats radicals, socialists, appeasers, unbelievers, eggheaded, weak, elitist, anti-business, anti-family, spendthrifts, etc., they fall all over themselves saying “NO!!! We’re NOT!!! Let me prove it to you!!” and back off from whatever they were called on. As to why they fear the electorate will react worse to the latter set of pejoratives than the former, see the Max Cleland v. Saxby Chambliss Senate race. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/70 "2010-02-14T22:43:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > My hatred of the working class? I AM the working class you pompous jerk. I haven’t wavered from a desire to see health care reform pass. > > I specifically said union voters for a reason. The people who actually do the voting do not want their insurance destroyed by a public option. If labor was in favor of this then the Democratic party (with a majority vote) wouldn’t be hiding in the tall grass over it. Their constituents want reform based around private options. The reason is that health insurance companies, and those making money off the present screwed up system spent 1.5 million dollars a day fighting reform. Unions are of little consequence in this mess. There are 1500 lobbyists pounding on doors, threatening politicians and putting their faces on news talk shows. Health care reform is in a direct confrontation with big strong self serving companies. Unions have had influence in a long time, nor do unions vote as one. Nurses unions have backed reform. So have many others. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/71 "2010-02-14T22:48:33Z")
Besides the Dems never had 60 votes. People are including Sanders and independent, Spector a repub in Dems clothing and Lieberman a turncoat . They tries to talk to a couple repubs who are not ultra conservative like Snowe. But the Repub party does not play nice. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/72 "2010-02-17T19:25:00Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because the reason the Democrats have a 60 seat majority is that they have a wide tent. That wide tent means that there are ultra liberals to very conservatives in their party. As it happens the very conservatives didn’t want to vote for it, which means less than 60 votes. Agreed. We never had a cohesive majority to begin with. Comparing this to, say, German politics–allowing for the fact that their centrists are way to the left of ours–this would be akin to the Social Democrats and Free Democrats forming a coalition with a whisker thin majority. Of course, in our case it wouldn’t have been whisker thin if they could have acted on a simple majority. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/73 "2010-02-17T19:31:20Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Agreed. > We never had a cohesive majority to begin with. Comparing this to, say, German politics–allowing for the fact that their centrists are way to the left of ours–this would be akin to the Social Democrats and Free Democrats forming a coalition with a whisker thin majority. Of course, in our case it wouldn’t have been whisker thin if they could have acted on a simple majority. I don’t think this is unique to the Dems, btw. Either party is going to have to have a pretty wide tent to get 60 seats in the Senate. The Dems picked up a lot of former Republican seats in both houses by running some fairly “moderate” candidates. While the Republicans may regain some of those seats, it’s unlikely they will do so with hard right candidates. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/74 "2010-02-17T19:44:35Z")
Could one of the reasons be that no effort to reform health care was part of the legislation proposed? As far as I could tell the bills that were being discussed would have affected health insurance coverage. I can’t imagine how that would have reformed health care at all, or how it would have helped with rising costs. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/75 "2010-02-19T22:34:12Z")
I have some hope that Obama’s meetings with congress in an open forum to discuss health care reform will help to really separate the rhetoric from the reality. I almost farted when I started hearing Republicans attacking Democrats for trying to cut medicare, it was like I was in bizarro world. I don’t think you could get away with that sort of bullsh1t in an open forum. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/76 "2010-02-23T12:25:18Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > … Corrupt cowards. Paid off by the insurance industry, **terrified of the Republicans**. emphasis mine. BS, they’re partners in crime. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/77 "2010-02-23T15:57:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I have some hope that Obama’s meetings with congress in an open forum to discuss health care reform will help to really separate the rhetoric from the reality. I almost farted when I started hearing Republicans attacking Democrats for trying to cut medicare, it was like I was in bizarro world. I don’t think you could get away with that sort of bullsh1t in an open forum. For those interested on the latest, the [WaPo](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/22/AR2010022204715.html) (reg required) editorial does an interesting job summing up Obama’s latest plan. The upshot: too expensive, and way too optimistic. I can’t believe I find myself agreeing with the Post on anything. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/78 "2010-02-23T23:10:22Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > My guess is that they aren’t confident that UHC will be as good as they say it is. If they established universal health care entirely on their own, every setback or flaw becomes entirely their fault. No, it would be anyway. Getting Olympia Snowe to vote for it doesn’t change that the GOP leadership was opposed. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000/79 "2010-02-23T23:54:35Z")
The oddity is that both sides have agreed the system is broken and needs fixing. The repubs have no plans to fix it. They just have plans to derail the dems attempts to do so. McCain ran on fixing it. That was not so long ago. The repubs think they smell blood and can make political gains off defeating the bill. That is a hell of an indictment for our political system. needed reform is being stopped for political gain. The politicians are not doing the peoples work. Well at least the repubs are not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-the-dem-pass-uhc/527000.md?page=3)