# Why didn't trump ban countries that actually committed terrorist attacks that resulted in US deaths? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599 "2017-01-30T17:41:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/1 "2017-01-30T17:41:18Z")
Why didn’t he ban muslims from Saudi arabia, egypt, or even pakistan? This makes literally no sense, is it completely politically-ignorant driven? On the basis that people believe folks from these countries are terrorists? Was it to prevent immigration of refugees from countries we helped stir up conflict and chaos? I’m not sure how to approach this, was hoping to see some debates going on here about trumps executive orders. Needless to say I’m disappointed, was hoping for a much stronger backlash from dopers against our current president. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/2 "2017-01-30T17:43:05Z")
He has business concerns there. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/3 "2017-01-30T17:48:47Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Why didn’t he ban muslims from Saudi arabia, egypt, or even pakistan? This makes literally no sense, is it completely politically-ignorant driven? On the basis that people believe folks from these countries are terrorists? Was it to prevent immigration of refugees from countries we helped stir up conflict and chaos? Presumably because it’s the list of countries designated as “countries of concern” pursuant to the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. The BBC explains it [here](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38798588). ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/4 "2017-01-30T17:51:16Z")
Blame Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/5 "2017-01-30T17:56:02Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He has business concerns there. ^ This. He is Financially Conflicted and Impaired from acting Independently as POTUS from his Financial Interests. See: Artical II, section 1 “Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/6 "2017-01-30T17:59:00Z")
In the fourth crusade there was the proposal to invade Egypt first to then get to the Holy Land. The idea was nixed because the Venetians had many business deals with the Egyptians then. But even before that the crusaders ran out of money (not much interest on playing the crusader games by then) so with the Venetians the crusaders double crossed Christianity and instead invaded Constantinople. (That was still christian! But they had the money and the pope was not happy with the Christians there) So what about the regions of the middle east that they were supposed to be freed from the Muslims? After getting their winnings the crusaders forgot about it… I expect no less from modern crusaders that only look after their own wealth and not to benefit the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/7 "2017-01-30T18:11:24Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He has business concerns there. Although I wouldn’t put it past him to do this, and he may have screened the countries on the list to make sure that none were putting his finances at risk, given that this list exactly matches Obama’s list of countries of concern, make it far more plausible that he just copied these down. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/8 "2017-01-30T18:14:49Z")
That’s a vast simplification of history, or the context behind the Great Betrayal. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/9 "2017-01-30T18:18:39Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Although I wouldn’t put it past him to do this, and he may have screened the countries on the list to make sure that none were putting his finances at risk, given that this list exactly matches Obama’s list of countries of concern, make it far more plausible that he just copied these down. During the Obama administration, they passed bills and orders with dozens or even hundreds of different lists of countries. This one wasn’t even an exact match, from my googling. It’s plausible to me that they chose them first (for whatever reasons – corruption, bigotry, incompetence, something else, or a combination), and then combed Obama orders and bills to find something similar to justify them, once they were criticized for it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/10 "2017-01-30T18:20:35Z")
Falchion already gave the answer I would have, so I’m just here for the fun and games now. **running coach** or **Count Blucher** , do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/11 "2017-01-30T18:26:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > During the Obama administration, they passed bills and orders with dozens or even hundreds of different lists of countries. This one wasn’t even an exact match, from my googling. It’s plausible to me that they chose them first (for whatever reasons – corruption, bigotry, incompetence, something else, or a combination), and then combed Obama orders and bills to find something similar to justify them, once they were criticized for it. Your googling sucks. Try this: [https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program](https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program) > [@](#): > > The Department of Homeland Security today announced that it is continuing its implementation of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 with the addition of **Libya** , **Somalia** , and **Yemen** as three countries of concern, limiting Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals who have traveled to these countries. > > … > > The three additional countries designated today join **Iran** , **Iraq** , **Sudan** and **Syria** as countries subject to restrictions for Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals. ETA: this took about two minutes to find. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/12 "2017-01-30T18:30:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > During the Obama administration, they passed bills and orders with dozens or even hundreds of different lists of countries. This one wasn’t even an exact match, from my googling. It’s plausible to me that they chose them first (for whatever reasons – corruption, bigotry, incompetence, something else, or a combination), and then combed Obama orders and bills to find something similar to justify them, once they were criticized for it. I’m not smart enough to know if the website has been changed in the new administration. But the CBP website’s FAQ on the statute that I cited clearly lists “Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen” and explains that Libya, Yemen, and Somalia were added on February 18, 2016 while “Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan” were part of the original list. [Cite](https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waiver-program/visa-waiver-program-improvement-and-terrorist-travel-prevention-act-faq). That’s seems like a pretty similar list to me. It’s also a list that’s directly related to immigration (as opposed to something like the OFAC countries of concern list), so it seems somewhat unlikely that Trump made up a list of countries of concern for immigration purposes (based on corruption or bigotry) that just happens to be the same as the list of countries of concern for immigration purposes. But maybe you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/13 "2017-01-30T18:30:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Falchion already gave the answer I would have, so I’m just here for the fun and games now. > > **running coach** or **Count Blucher** , do you have a cite? [Countries where Trump does business are not hit by new travel restrictions](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/countries-where-trump-does-business-are-not-hit-by-new-travel-restrictions/2017/01/28/dd40535a-e56b-11e6-a453-19ec4b3d09ba_story.html) > [@](#): > > The executive order he signed Friday bars all entry for the next 90 days by travelers from Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia and Libya. Excluded from the lists are several majority-Muslim nations where the Trump Organization is active and which in some cases have also faced troublesome issues with terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/14 "2017-01-30T18:30:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your googling sucks. Try this: [DHS Announces Further Travel Restrictions for the Visa Waiver Program | Homeland Security](https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program) Okay, so out of the dozens or hundreds of lists of countries related to terrorism, they happened to find one that matched. Or maybe I’m wrong, and they actually based the policy on this particular bill. This isn’t actually a defense, though – it’s an awful, inhumane, bigoted, and unAmerican policy even if the list of countries matches a list from some unrelated (and non-green-card/legal-immigrant-restricting) Obama bill. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/15 "2017-01-30T18:30:36Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Presumably because it’s the list of countries designated as “countries of concern” pursuant to the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. > > The BBC explains it [here](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38798588). From your linked article - \*On 28 January 2017 President Donald Trump signed an executive order that banned travel into the United States for citizens from these seven countries for 90 days: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. The restrictions were part of wide ranging immigration controls that also suspended refugee arrivals. It appears that existing restrictions in place during the Obama administration informed Trump’s list. …In December 2015 Congress passed a law - created by senators from both parties, and supported and signed by the White House - that removed waiver benefits for foreign nationals who had visited certain countries since March 2011. The countries were identified as having a terrorist organisation with a significant presence in the area, or the country was deemed a “safe haven” for terrorists. After Libya, Somalia and Yemen were added to the list in February 2016, the “countries of concern” were the seven named in Trump’s order.\* It sounds as it the news media outlets are creating fake news about this being a muslim ban. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/16 "2017-01-30T18:41:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, so out of the dozens or hundreds of lists of countries related to terrorism, they happened to find one that matched. Or maybe I’m wrong, and they actually based the policy on this particular bill. > > This isn’t actually a defense, though – it’s an awful, inhumane, bigoted, and unAmerican policy even if the list of countries matches a list from some unrelated (and non-green-card/legal-immigrant-restricting) Obama bill. I don’t think it’s remotely fair or accurate to call the “Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015” “some unrelated bill”. The whole point was to keep terrorists out (If you’d read my cite, you’d understand this). Here’s what the DHS said: > [@](#): > > The addition of these three countries is indicative of the Department’s continued focus on the threat of foreign fighters. DHS continues to review the security of the Visa Waiver Program, the threat environment, and potential vulnerabilities. This is the latest step in a series of actions over the past 15 months to strengthen the security of the Visa Waiver Program and ensure the Program’s requirements are commensurate with **the growing threat from foreign terrorist fighters, many of whom are nationals of Visa Waiver Program countries**. That was the Obama-era DHS. This isn’t some new Trump-invented bogeyman. The Obama administration recognized the danger of immigrants from these places. The point of Trump’s executive order is to prevent terrorists from getting into the country. We could have an intelligent debate about whether this was the best way to achieve it, or whether there are more narrowly-tailored methods that could keep terrorists out while letting vetted refugees in, but the media seems to just want to scream “MUSLIM BAN!” and act hysterical, so that intelligent debate probably won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/17 "2017-01-30T18:44:03Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Presumably because it’s the list of countries designated as “countries of concern” pursuant to the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. So, these are countries that already have enhanced vetting for the purposes of getting a US visa? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/18 "2017-01-30T18:45:38Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Countries where Trump does business are not hit by new travel restrictions](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/countries-where-trump-does-business-are-not-hit-by-new-travel-restrictions/2017/01/28/dd40535a-e56b-11e6-a453-19ec4b3d09ba_story.html) Is that fake news? Or the authors feelings on the subject? Did the author actually read the executive order in question? Did the author notice that none of those detained for questioning were carrying busts of Martin Luther King? \*EXECUTIVE ORDER * * * PROTECTING THE NATION FROM FOREIGN TERRORIST ENTRY INTO THE UNITED STATES By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, including the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq ., and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and to protect the American people from terrorist attacks by foreign nationals admitted to the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows : Yada, yada, yada…\* > **[Trump Executive Order 1 | PDF](https://www.scribd.com/document/337740314/Trump-Executive-Order-1?content=10079&campaign=Skimbit%2C%2BLtd.&ad_group=&keyword=ft500noi&source=impactradius&medium=affiliate&irgwc=1)** > > EXECUTIVE ORDER > > \- - - - - - - > > PROTECTING THE NATION FROM FOREIGN TERRORIST ENTRY INTO THE UNITED STATES > > News tips: Celeste@mic.com ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/19 "2017-01-30T18:45:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think it’s remotely fair or accurate to call the “Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015” “some unrelated bill”. The whole point was to keep terrorists out (If you’d read my cite, you’d understand this). Here’s what the DHS said: > > That was the Obama-era DHS. This isn’t some new Trump-invented bogeyman. The Obama administration recognized the danger of immigrants from these places. > > **The point of Trump’s executive order is to prevent terrorists from getting into the country.** We could have an intelligent debate about whether this was the best way to achieve it, or whether there are more narrowly-tailored methods that could keep terrorists out while letting vetted refugees in, but the media seems to just want to scream “MUSLIM BAN!” and act hysterical, so that intelligent debate probably won’t happen. In case you didn’t notice, the refugees already undergo "extreme vetting. Takes an average of two years to clear the process. Seems to be working, no refugee has committed an act of terrorism in this country. It appears there are no terrorists coming into this country. What makes you think there was a sudden rush to do so? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599/20 "2017-01-30T18:46:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think it’s remotely fair or accurate to call the “Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015” “some unrelated bill”. The whole point was to keep terrorists out (If you’d read my cite, you’d understand this). Here’s what the DHS said: > > That was the Obama-era DHS. This isn’t some new Trump-invented bogeyman. The Obama administration recognized the danger of immigrants from these places. > > The point of Trump’s executive order is to prevent terrorists from getting into the country. We could have an intelligent debate about whether this was the best way to achieve it, or whether there are more narrowly-tailored methods that could keep terrorists out while letting vetted refugees in, but the media seems to just want to scream “MUSLIM BAN!” and act hysterical, so that intelligent debate probably won’t happen. It was mostly unrelated – it simply meant that people from countries that normally didn’t need a visa now needed a visa if they had traveled to these various countries of concern. That’s entirely different from Trump’s EO, which blocked legal residents, immigrants, and travelers alike. This policy endangers and weakens America. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-didnt-trump-ban-countries-that-actually-committed-terrorist-attacks-that-resulted-in-us-deaths/778599.md?page=2)