# Why do 9/11 conspiracy theorists continue to live in the USA for the most part? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 22, 2014, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193 "2014-09-22T09:50:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/21 "2014-09-22T18:24:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > They don’t want to change things, they just enjoy saying “Things gotta change!” Basically it. If there were a revolution it would not be started by the truthers, as they go to great lengths to not actually do anything useful. The average truther would be useless to a real revolution except as some kind of poor-man’s version of the Zamfpolit : a group of people who don’t know how to do anything except say what is wrong and who should be against the wall (In their opinion). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/22 "2014-09-22T18:58:03Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I could easily believe in a large overlap between Crazy and Lazy. I think you have it. They are like the pirates who don’t do anything. > **[The Pirates Who Don't Do Anything - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePiratesWhoDonTDoAnything)** > > They don't pillage. They don't plunder. They don't invade Port Towns, kidnap beautiful maidens, battle the Royal Navy on the high seas, broadcast without a license, or swap files on the intertubes... and they've never been to Boston in the fall. > [@](#): > > In general, a member of The Pirates Who Don’t Do Anything is any character who, despite having a certain canonical job, is rarely seen engaging in that job. They might indeed be a pirate who rarely goes out and steals treasure and raids ships — but they might just as easily be mobsters who don’t steal or smuggle, students who don’t go to class, office workers who never seem to do more than hang out in bars, or ninjas who just didn’t get the memo about that whole “stealthy assassin” thing. Rebels with only a keyboard now. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/23 "2014-09-22T19:20:42Z")
> [@Deu5Vult](#): > > Especially since the non-nut-job (and suitably vague) argument you’ve advocated leans heavily on a deliberate and perverted interpretation of what’s actually written in Rebuilding America’s Defenses. This is what I was going to point out - the “new Pearl Harbor” phrase in the original document was not saying they _wanted_ a new Pearl Harbor, it was just saying that the pace of change, as a political reality, would be slow, unless there was some catastrophic event that were to happen. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/24 "2014-09-22T19:20:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do 9/11 conspiracy theorists continue to live in the USA for the most part? Leaving aside my dislike and disgust at the Truther types, this really has the same answer as those Americans who hated when GW Bush was President and dragged us into a number of wars…they don’t leave because they hope for eventual change. Truther types think they are a small, plucky band of folks who know The Truth, and hope that by bringing it up over and over again they will eventually convince enough people about The Truth to Do Something(tm…arr). That something would be to affect real change, to punish the wrong do-ers and root them out, branch and root, and make America great again…or something. Plus, as others have noted, all their stuff is here. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/25 "2014-09-22T20:09:37Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > This is what I was going to point out - the “new Pearl Harbor” phrase in the original document was not saying they _wanted_ a new Pearl Harbor, it was just saying that the pace of change, as a political reality, would be slow, unless there was some catastrophic event that were to happen. _nudge-nudge_, _wink-wink_, [Say no more, say no more](http://gadandelion.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/nudge-nudge.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/26 "2014-09-22T20:20:15Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You’re mistaken. The “truthers” are simply liars. They lie. They know they lie. And they thoroughly enjoy the reaction they get from touting their lies. It’s not truth they seek, but rather to make those who happen to be smarter than they (and, wow, that’s not a small number) turn into flustered fools by treating them as though their supposed opinions are worthy of argument. > > Come to think of it, all of the nut-job CTers are simply liars. Why do you say this? I’ve known a couple of CT types in real life and they are desperately sincere in their beliefs. Why would anyone lie about this? Maybe a few of the money makers like Alex Jones and Dylan Avery are making things up to sell books, but I don’t see any reason to believe that your average Truther is insincere. People have believed in weird things since history began. The motivations for CT belief are pretty obvious. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/27 "2014-09-22T21:50:20Z")
The OP’s question is a fair one… but I think I know what the Truthers would say. See, I myself remain a faithful Catholic even though I KNOW of the crimes priests ahve committed and the coverups bishops have engaged in. So, knowing all that, why don’t I quit the Church? Because my attitude is…why should _ **I** _ change? I still believe in what the Church stands for, and I’ve stayed faithful to that. The guilty priests and bishops are the ones who should be drummed out of the Church and sent to prison!!! Truthers would probably say something similar: “Why should WE leave? This is OUR country- it’s Bush and the neocons who should be kicked out.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Accident](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Mr.Accident](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Accident)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/28 "2014-09-22T22:18:22Z")
Former truther here. Many of the posters have covered it already. I stayed because this is where my friends and family are. It’s where I grew up, and it’s all I know. Plus I grew up believing in America; believing that it should live up to the ideals that we’re taught as kids. I didn’t want to leave my country because of a corrupt government. I wanted to stay, and work towards getting rid of that government, using the three boxes available to the citizens. (Soap box, vote box, ammo box if need be.) I have since come to realize that the 9/11 conspiracies weren’t true. (Mostly due to this message board I might add. It was one of the major threads on 9/11, and the supporting articles/papers/videos debunking the conspiracies that caused me to change my mind.) That being said, I still believe we have a corrupt government; just not one that would be able to cover up something like 9/11, if they decided to pull it off. Therefore I work to help end it. I vote for candidates I think would be better for the country than what we have now. I email/write/call my currently elected officials, and those of other states. I do the same for heads of things such as the FCC. I participate in local politics, campaign for people, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/29 "2014-09-22T23:17:53Z")
So you’re asking me to pack up my mom’s basement and move it to Zimbabwe? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/30 "2014-09-22T23:21:42Z")
I have a CTer in the family and she appears to be a 9/11 Truther (I say “appears” because she doesn’t talk about it in my presence because we’ve already clashed on other topics; I’ve seen her watch some Internet videos on it, though). She makes occasional noises about moving to Iceland because she heard that the Icelanders hanged their government after recession hit (no, they just voted out parts of the government, just like we did when we elected Obama). However, to leave she has to have a passport and going to the government for one is a non-starter. So instead she has moved into a shack in the boonies of New Hampshire with no running water. She does, however, have electricity+internet where she can follow all her favorite CTs. She doesn’t realize the irony of moving to the woods to escape the government while simultaneously posting all sorts of personal info on Facebook (at least until FB banned her for spamming people with her nonsense). It’s pretty sad, actually. She worries herself into a near panic about impending doom on occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/31 "2014-09-22T23:22:48Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > The nut-jobs, not the non nut-job ones? > > Which are those? Ever hear of reduplication? > [@](#): > > Maybe the ones that find it just a little bit suspicious that, just a couple of months after they got in power, the same people who needed a new _Pearl Harbor_ to get their Project for a New American Century going, got exactly that. > > Of course, yes, this could be just an enormous coincidence. Or, of course, you simply don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/32 "2014-09-22T23:24:30Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Why do you say this? I say this from my personal experience with the CTers. Each and every one I’ve met in person is simply enjoying the chain-yanking of their BS spiel. > [@](#): > > I’ve known a couple of CT types in real life and they are desperately sincere in their beliefs. Why would anyone lie about this? Maybe a few of the money makers like Alex Jones and Dylan Avery are making things up to sell books, but I don’t see any reason to believe that your average Truther is insincere. People have believed in weird things since history began. The motivations for CT belief are pretty obvious. Well, I’m not immune to the idea that the CTers are both liars and motivated by other things in addition. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/33 "2014-09-22T23:29:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You’re mistaken. The “truthers” are simply liars. They lie. They know they lie. This is pretty obviously false. Of course, you don’t actually mean this – you’re just lying in order to get a rise out of people. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/34 "2014-09-22T23:49:26Z")
The practical difference between being a liar and being someone who spouts ridiculous (even contradictory) nonsense without any effort at integrity is a minor one. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/35 "2014-09-23T00:55:21Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Leaving aside my dislike and disgust at the Truther types, this really has the same answer as those Americans who hated when GW Bush was President and dragged us into a number of wars…they don’t leave because they hope for eventual change. Truther types think they are a small, plucky band of folks who know The Truth, and hope that by bringing it up over and over again they will eventually convince enough people about The Truth to Do Something(tm…arr). That something would be to affect real change, to punish the wrong do-ers and root them out, branch and root, and make America great again…or something. > > Plus, as others have noted, all their stuff is here. 😛 First of all, this isn’t a difference in opinions on policy. Disliking a war we got into is a policy issue. But accusing the government of killing civilians and covering it up is not a simple disagreement of policy. Maybe I have more integrity than most Truthers, but again, if I was convinced that my country was evil, I would take the necessary steps to leave it. When the Nazi party came into control in Germany and it became apparent to Germans what their country was doing, I have little doubt that a great many people fled the country and I don’t think this was just limited to Jews or other persecuted groups. There were cases of mathematicians and scientists leaving though their departure was easier thanks to assistance from other countries. It’s hard to look up the historical record of fleeing Nazi Germany without referencing the Jewish exodus from the country, but I have trouble believing that there wasn’t at least a sizable minority of non-Jewish Germans who were repulsed by the Nazis and left their country in protest and also not to live under such a regime. I am aware that I might have Godwinned my point, but I don’t think so since the things that 9/11 Truthers blame on the American government involve the systematic slaughter of innocent people which is the same thing the Nazis did, albeit on a larger scale. I’d like to think that I would have left Nazi Germany when I discovered what they were doing, or at least tried my best to do so. I know that I would leave the USA if I was convinced that Bush planned 9/11 and Obama and future Presidents did not hold those accountable for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/36 "2014-09-23T01:04:37Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > This is pretty obviously false. Of course, you don’t actually mean this – you’re just lying in order to get a rise out of people. Do not accuse other posters of lying in Great Debates. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/37 "2014-09-23T02:46:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I could easily believe in a large overlap between Crazy and Lazy. Exactly. Know why you’ve never hear the term ‘armchair conspiracy theorist’? Because it would be redundant. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/38 "2014-09-23T03:34:59Z")
[QUOTE=John\_Stamos’\_Left\_Ear] First of all, this isn’t a difference in opinions on policy. Disliking a war we got into is a policy issue. But accusing the government of killing civilians and covering it up is not a simple disagreement of policy. Maybe I have more integrity than most Truthers, but again, if I was convinced that my country was evil, I would take the necessary steps to leave it. [/QUOTE] It wasn’t simply a policy issue with many people, especially Democrats/Liberals/Left wingers wrt GWB and gang. A lot of people felt that GWB et al had lied us into a war that killed thousands of US service men and women, 100’s of thousands of Iraqi’s, including women and children, and it was all for PROFIT! This wasn’t about simple disagreements, but fundamental core disagreements. Tell me…do YOU think GWB et al lied us into a war in Iraq, for whatever reason? Isn’t that pretty much the same thing as the Truthers thinking GWB et al were behind 9/11? The only real difference is a few extra thousand American lives sacrificed, since the death toll on the Iraqi side would be the same whether 9/11 was a CT or not. Right? Assuming you do think GWB lied, or at least that a large number of Democrats/Liberals/Left Wingers/SDMB Members though/think that, you have to ask the same question…why are they still here, when the country they live in is so evil. Answer…they think/thought that it was worth staying because things change in the US. Perhaps they thought that once there was a change then retribution for the wicked would be at hand. Obviously that didn’t happen, but they are all still here regardless. > [@](#): > > When the Nazi party came into control in Germany and it became apparent to Germans what their country was doing, I have little doubt that a great many people fled the country and I don’t think this was just limited to Jews or other persecuted groups. There were cases of mathematicians and scientists leaving though their departure was easier thanks to assistance from other countries. Most of those who fled were Jews or others considered by the German’s to be undesirables. Most ethnic Germans (Christian Germans) didn’t flee. Some stayed because they agreed with the Nazis, but some stayed to be there to help or anticipate change. Some actually tried to whack Hitler, though sadly they failed. > [@](#): > > I am aware that I might have Godwinned my point, but I don’t think so since the things that 9/11 Truthers blame on the American government involve the systematic slaughter of innocent people which is the same thing the Nazis did, albeit on a larger scale. Well, it’s not close to the same scale as what the Nazis did, so you Godwin-ized your thread for no real reason. Even if you include everything that happened in Iraq and Afghanistan it’s not close to the horror that the Nazis perpetrated, considering the numbers of people who died during WWII, not to mention the 7 million Jews and millions of undesirables the Germans killed directly. > [@](#): > > I’d like to think that I would have left Nazi Germany when I discovered what they were doing, or at least tried my best to do so. I know that I would leave the USA if I was convinced that Bush planned 9/11 and Obama and future Presidents did not hold those accountable for their actions. Yeah, but yours would be a minority view point. Most people wouldn’t leave their home country as you describe. I’m not saying your view isn’t valid or right, for you, but I think most people would stay either because it’s their home and where their families are, or because someone has to fight the darkness. While I dislike 9/11 Truthers as much as the next person, you have to put yourself in their shoes wrt their actions, and try and think ‘logically’ within the structure of their fantasy to understand why they haven’t all left. They think they are the few keepers of the light in a dark time, and they want to stay to fight that dark…and be here when the rest of us suddenly realize they were right all along, to bask in the public’s praise of their goodness and smarts. 😛 The fact they are living in a fantasy in their own minds and perpetrate ignorance has nothing to do with their logic for staying to fight the good fight, even if it’s not the good fight. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/39 "2014-09-23T08:01:58Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > This is what I was going to point out - the “new Pearl Harbor” phrase in the original document was not saying they _wanted_ a new Pearl Harbor, it was just saying that the pace of change, as a political reality, would be slow, unless there was some catastrophic event that were to happen. I am still just dumbfounded by the stupidity of this “argument”. That they didn’t write down literaly , in an official, signed paper, that they wanted a new Pearl Harbor to happen is _proof_ that they didn’t want that. ---
**Author:** ![jsquire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jsquire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsquire)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/40 "2014-09-23T08:22:39Z")
There’s another and simpler answer to the OP’s question: most CT types don’t have the financial means to leave. They have neither the cash reserves not the ability to find a good job in another country. Another speculative reason is that they don’t believe their own BS enough to change their lives that much. Add to it that most places they could move would be more liberal than the USA, especially if they aren’t fluent in a second language. I think most would rather live their current life while believing they are smarter than the “sheeple” around them. BTW, can they think for themselves and come up with a new term? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193.md?page=3)