# Why do 9/11 conspiracy theorists continue to live in the USA for the most part? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 22, 2014, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193 "2014-09-22T09:50:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Deu5Vult](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ec9cab/32.png) [@Deu5Vult](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deu5Vult)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/41 "2014-09-23T09:33:11Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > I am still just dumbfounded by the stupidity of this “argument”. And such are the cheap and transient benefits of suitably vague arguments. > [@Latro](#): > > That they didn’t write down literaly , in an official, signed paper, that they wanted a new Pearl Harbor to happen is _proof_ that they didn’t want that. So why exactly did you mention “suspicious”, “a new Pearl harbor” and “The Project for a New American Century” in the same sentence and entirely within the context of 911 conspiracy? Who are _they_, what did _they_ want, what happened 2 months after \*they \*came in to power and most importantly, how do _you_ know? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/42 "2014-09-23T10:12:31Z")
> [@Deu5Vult](#): > > Who are _they_, what did _they_ want, what happened 2 months after \*they \*came in to power and most importantly, how do _you_ know? Either you just sprang into existence one month ago or you have been living under a rock for quite some time. Or you know perfectly well what persons I am talking about and I am at a loss why you would ask such a silly question. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/43 "2014-09-23T10:52:52Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Either you just sprang into existence one month ago or you have been living under a rock for quite some time. > > Or you know perfectly well what persons I am talking about and I am at a loss why you would ask such a silly question. Still waiting for you to provide conclusive (compelling even) evidence that the US government and/or its representatives were involved in or contributed to acts of terrorism on US soil. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/44 "2014-09-23T10:58:00Z")
Here: > **[Project for the New American Century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century)** > > Defunct > Newspapers > Journals > [@](#): > > “New Pearl Harbor”[edit] > Section V of Rebuilding America’s Defenses, entitled “Creating Tomorrow’s Dominant Force”, includes the sentence: “Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor” (51).[15] > > Though not arguing that Bush administration PNAC members were complicit in those attacks, other social critics such as journalist Mark Danner,[39] journalist John Pilger, in New Statesman,[40] and former editor of The San Francisco Chronicle Bernard Weiner, in CounterPunch,[41] all argue that PNAC members used the events of 9/11 as the “Pearl Harbor” that they needed––that is, as an “opportunity” to “capitalize on” (in Pilger’s words), in order to enact long-desired plans. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/45 "2014-09-23T11:14:59Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Here: > [Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century) This is evidence of what exactly? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/46 "2014-09-23T11:18:52Z")
I see this thread will get bogged down by refuting claims of Truthers. That’s to be expected from Truthers, I suppose. In any event, re: “New Pearl Harbor” — Someone who comes upon the corpse of a person who was obviously murdered is a horrible person if they riffle through the person’s clothes looking for valuables. But that doesn’t mean that they killed that person, especially when all forensic evidence shows that he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/47 "2014-09-23T11:24:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This is evidence of what exactly? That the phrase was used in the PNAC manifesto, I make no other claims. Just wanted to post it and get it out of the way so the conversation could move on. ---
**Author:** ![Deu5Vult](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ec9cab/32.png) [@Deu5Vult](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deu5Vult)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/48 "2014-09-23T11:31:55Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Either you just sprang into existence one month ago or you have been living under a rock for quite some time. But that’s a little too accountable though, isn’t it, Latro? Perhaps we should look to your non-commital and allusory language for the cause of people not ‘getting’ you. > [@Latro](#): > > Or you know perfectly well what persons I am talking about and I am at a loss why you would ask such a silly question. Tell me, when most people respond to you with arguments of stupidity and silly questions, do you not ever think you’re perhaps just a little too learned for these boards? Anyway, I do have an idea but it is as vague as you’ve allowed it to be. You said the people who needed a new Pearl Harbor got one a couple of (two) months after they came into power. If we take ‘a new Pearl Harbor’ to represent the day of 911, then who exactly came into power two months before that? Admittedly, this could have been resolved as a nitpick but as I do not know for definite who you are talking about, or either I missed something important in July 2001 while living under my rock, how can one be expected to address your premise without asking a silly question? Something else that I feel needs clearing up is the ownership of the Project for a New American Century, which had in fact been in existence since 2007, long before _they_ came into power. Yet you claim it was their project? How so if someone else was in power when it was created? Lastly, I’m sure you can explain how you know what _they_ wanted without palming it off as a silly question? If it wasn’t written down in RAD (because yes, I agree, that would be a stupid argument), then how _do_ you know and why the need to mention Pearl Harbor? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/49 "2014-09-23T11:32:28Z")
Ah. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/50 "2014-09-23T12:30:57Z")
> [@Deu5Vult](#): > > But that’s a little too accountable though, isn’t it, Latro? Perhaps we should look to your non-commital and allusory language for the cause of people not ‘getting’ you. > Tell me, when most people respond to you with arguments of stupidity and silly questions, do you not ever think you’re perhaps just a little too learned for these boards? > > Anyway, I do have an idea but it is as vague as you’ve allowed it to be. > > You said the people who needed a new Pearl Harbor got one a couple of (two) months after they came into power. If we take ‘a new Pearl Harbor’ to represent the day of 911, then who exactly came into power two months before that? Admittedly, this could have been resolved as a nitpick but as I do not know for definite who you are talking about, or either I missed something important in July 2001 while living under my rock, how can one be expected to address your premise without asking a silly question? > > Something else that I feel needs clearing up is the ownership of the Project for a New American Century, which had in fact been in existence since 2007, long before _they_ came into power. Yet you claim it was their project? How so if someone else was in power when it was created? > > Lastly, I’m sure you can explain how you know what _they_ wanted without palming it off as a silly question? > > If it wasn’t written down in RAD (because yes, I agree, that would be a stupid argument), then how _do_ you know and why the need to mention Pearl Harbor? You really are all over the place … So, you admit you did indeed know exactly who I meant by “they”. What then is your problem with: > [@Latro](#): > > - find it just a little bit suspicious that, just a couple of months after they got in power, the same people who needed a new _Pearl Harbor_ to get their Project for a New American Century going, got exactly that. It wasn’t not vague to you at all. The statement is quite clear; I am suspicious of the coincedence. You got it, other people got it, so what are you trying to get out of your accusations of vagueness and other insinuations? You want me to to hand over absolute proof that “they” organised 911 or else I have no right to be suspicious? You can just slap on the label “TRUTHER”, point and laugh. In your world, does this somehow constitute a sufficient answer to those suspiscions? Do _you_ think it’s just a big coincedence? How many “Pearl Harbors” have we had the last couple of decades? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/51 "2014-09-23T13:31:04Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > You want me to to hand over absolute proof that “they” organised 911 or else I have no right to be suspicious? You can just slap on the label “TRUTHER”, point and laugh. > In your world, does this somehow constitute a sufficient answer to those suspiscions? Yes. I would love to see some credible evidence that shows the US gov’t “organized 911”. Exra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence. But in this case, I’ll settle for simply credible. > [@Latro](#): > > Do _you_ think it’s just a big coincedence? No. I think it’s completely unrelated. > [@Latro](#): > > How many “Pearl Harbors” have we had the last couple of decades? None. What are _you_ talking about? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/52 "2014-09-23T14:01:40Z")
[QUOTE=Latro] How many “Pearl Harbors” have we had the last couple of decades? [/QUOTE] > [@QuickSilver](#): > > None. What are _you_ talking about? Given that in **Latro** -speak, the eight months between Dubya’s inauguration and 9/11 constituted “a couple” of months, the correct answer to his question is clearly one: the actual Pearl Harbor, which happened a couple of decades ago in 1941. ---
**Author:** ![Deu5Vult](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ec9cab/32.png) [@Deu5Vult](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deu5Vult)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/53 "2014-09-23T14:41:05Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > You really are all over the place … Yes, such are the consequences of a suitably vague argument. > [@Latro](#): > > So, you admit you did indeed know exactly who I meant by “they”. No, not exactly, Latro. Mostly because the ‘they’ I’m thinking of didn’t come into power two months before 911, as you inferred. I do have a good idea but I’m currently researching major events of July 2001 before I commit to an answer. > [@Latro](#): > > What then is your problem with: > > - find it just a little bit suspicious that, just a couple of months after they got in power, the same people who needed a new Pearl Harbor to get their Project for a New American Century going, got exactly that. Ah, you did it again. For the third time of asking, who exactly came into power just a couple of months before 911? > [@Latro](#): > > It wasn’t not vague to you at all. The statement is quite clear; I am suspicious of the coincedence. No names, dodgy timescale, reference to an irrelevant statement in a report about improving America’s military capability, mention of a now defunct educational organisation without _any_ reason. Yes, as an argument that’s apparently supposed to convince us that not all truthers are nut-jobs, it’s pretty vague, Latro. If you were simply suspicious of the coincidence, fair enough. It’s the justification of that suspicion that is problematic i.e. the inexplicable parroting of the requisite for a new Pearl Harbor. > [@Latro](#): > > You want me to to hand over absolute proof that “they” organised 911 or else I have no right to be suspicious? You can just slap on the label “TRUTHER”, point and laugh. You have every right to be suspicious. I certainly do not have the authority nor the inclination to say otherwise. I can however pursue your reasons for suspicion to demonstrate that your argument, as a whole, is unnecessary in this instance. I’ve no desire to point and laugh at you. > [@Latro](#): > > In your world, does this somehow constitute a sufficient answer to those suspiscions? Making a clear connection between the PNAC and 911 would be a good start. Simply repeating “a new Pearl Harbor” is vague and of little if any use. > [@Latro](#): > > Do _you_ think it’s just a big coincedence? Why a _big_ coincidence, Latro? Why the loaded question? If the coincidence is a terrorist attack and a change of presidency occurring in the same year then yes, of course it’s a coincidence. If a terrorist attack happens on American soil it’s going to happen in someone’s presidency, isn’t it? If you’re asking me judge coincidence based on anything said in your initial argument, then forget it - I can’t even make sense of it. > [@Latro](#): > > How many “Pearl Harbors” have we had the last couple of decades? Apart from the fact there has only been one Pearl Harbor, ever, I still don’t get why you keep mentioning it. Please explain the pertinence of Pearl Harbor to me in this context. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/54 "2014-09-23T15:54:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You’re mistaken. The “truthers” are simply liars. They lie. They know they lie. > [@VarlosZ](#): > > This is pretty obviously false. Of course, you don’t actually mean this – you’re just lying in order to get a rise out of people. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Do not accuse other posters of lying in Great Debates. > > [/Moderating] I wasn’t, of course. Just illustrating a point. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/55 "2014-09-23T16:24:35Z")
> [@Deu5Vult](#): > > No, not exactly, Latro. Mostly because the ‘they’ I’m thinking of didn’t come into power two months before 911, as you inferred. I do have a good idea but I’m currently researching major events of July 2001 before I commit to an answer. > > If you were simply suspicious of the coincidence, fair enough. It’s the justification of that suspicion that is problematic i.e. the inexplicable parroting of the requisite for a new Pearl Harbor. > > Making a clear connection between the PNAC and 911 would be a good start. Simply repeating “a new Pearl Harbor” is vague and of little if any use. > > Why a _big_ coincidence, Latro? Why the loaded question? > > Apart from the fact there has only been one Pearl Harbor, ever, I still don’t get why you keep mentioning it. > > Please explain the pertinence of Pearl Harbor to me in this context. So, you are hinging your argument, that I am being vague, on the fact that “a couple”= 2 and that for the life of you you can’t figure out what is meant by “another Pearl Harbor”. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/56 "2014-09-23T16:27:45Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > So, you are hinging your argument, that I am being vague, on the fact that “a couple”= 2 and that for the life of you you can’t figure out what is meant by “another Pearl Harbor”. What do you mean what do I mean what do you mean?.. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/57 "2014-09-23T18:24:50Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > So, you are hinging your argument, that I am being vague, on the fact that “a couple”= 2 and that for the life of you you can’t figure out what is meant by “another Pearl Harbor”. Just so I’m clear, are you suggesting that Pearl Harbor was also an inside job? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/58 "2014-09-23T18:48:17Z")
“Pearl Harbor” is like “Aloha”; it means “sneak attack” \*and \* “massive government conspiracy.” ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/59 "2014-09-23T18:53:50Z")
I am often reminded of how racist many of these conspiracy theories are. White Americans are capable of the most intricate coordination and coverups, but those Japanese or Middle Easterners could never have simply outsmarted us. We must have been controlling the whole thing all along, really. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193/60 "2014-09-23T18:58:59Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Just so I’m clear, are you suggesting that Pearl Harbor was also an inside job? What? Where do you get that from?? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-continue-to-live-in-the-usa-for-the-most-part/699193.md?page=4)