# Why do a significant number of people hold poorly-thought-out positions on major topics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544 "2010-09-30T00:59:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/1 "2010-09-30T00:59:14Z")
Ok, I am not as eloquent in my writing ability as many in this forum, so please bare with me while I attempt to explain this adequately: The thread title is the best I can come up with for this phenomenon. It seems whenever I watch the news, or read a newspaper article, or even engage in spirited conversation, the vast majority of people seem to hold opinions and worldviews that contradict that of what could be perceived as the reality. Many of these views are easily falsifiable by reputable sources, as well as some basic self-research on the topic. The debate I wish to spark here in this thread is “why is this so?” Why do so many people cling to obviously false statements or radical viewpoints without even stopping to consider the evidence presented by those that don’t agree with them? How do they even go about their lives with the cognitive dissonance this must cause? When I make up my mind on a topic of worth, I spend quite a bit of time on self-reflection. What are my core values? What criteria do I base my opinion on, and what criteria do I dismiss as unnecessary? How much worth can I give to each input of information I receive, how much can I trust the sources, and then how does that change or solidify my views? What makes me reach the conclusion I do? Does my conclusion logically make sense? Just to give a specific example (there are many, pick any GD thread), but one of which I hope this thread will not specifically focus upon: the concept that the recent stimulus package not fixing the economy. The argument against seems to be that since the stimulus did not bring the economy back to 100% health, it did absolutely nothing. Every time I see this argument espoused, it appears to never enter the heads of those who hold this view “Hey, maybe it didn’t make things as great as they were, but it sure helped make things one hell of a lot less bad than it could have been”. Now, I’m not saying that everyone would agree with this rebuttal. But it just appears that since it does not mesh with their previous argument, most will basically pretend the argument does not exist instead of either A) explaining why the point is invalid, or B) explaining why the point may be valid but is outweighed by other criteria. As noted above, this is just one example off the top of my head. Feel free to substitute in the issue/viewpoints of your choice. I realize the responses to this may be as simple as “because people are stupid and don’t think”, but is that really all it is? Personally I can’t imagine waking up every day and not analyzing the input I receive and deciding what is well and truly local and right. Maybe I’m just too naive to think it is something more complex than that. Your thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/2 "2010-09-30T01:05:00Z")
Environment, if you are around people that think similarly it doesn’t matter of it makes sense. You think X because everyone around you agrees with X. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/3 "2010-09-30T01:29:49Z")
[Rational ignorance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_ignorance) explains a lot of it. For many people, there’s little upside to having a well thought-out view on an issue. Even people that do think carefully about abstract issues often do it for selfish reasons (they were praised for being smart as a kid, they hang out with people who expect them to know about politics, they take pleasure in being more informed than others, etc.). Its just that those selfish reasons don’t apply to everyone. Part of it is also [cognitive dissonance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance). Believing in the position that your logic takes you to might mean contradicting some position that does provide you the kind of benefits described above. So, if you come to believe that gay sex is not evil, you might reject that belief in favor of the belief that makes you happier (like that your church is just, etc.) In short, people (including you and I), believe what they want to believe for the most part. It takes tremendous struggle to believe something that you don’t really want to believe. Some people are “lucky,” in that they take some psychic benefit from reasoning through an issue, marshaling evidence, changing their minds about something, etc. But they’re not better or necessarily smarter than the rationally ignorant, they just happen to have a personality and emotional disposition that takes pleasure from the kind of even-handedness you describe. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/4 "2010-09-30T01:38:00Z")
I would add, it’s also very easy to overestimate the intelligence of the average person. Reasoning about political beliefs is a fairly specific kind of intelligence, and not everyone is good at it. A person with a 100 IQ will struggle. But I assume from the question that you’re talking about people who do things like debate the stimulus in a message board, which is already a fairly self-selected group of smartish people. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/5 "2010-09-30T01:44:01Z")
"If is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/6 "2010-09-30T01:44:15Z")
Because if you actually stopped to reconsider your preconceptions every time you came across anomalous or contradictory evidence, you’d be totally paralyzed. It is much easier to stick to a concrete but untenable position than constantly revisit your dearly held assumptions, hence why conspiracy theories, agrarian subsidies, organic dietary supplements, religion, and the lottery are all going strong while tax reform, intelligent water use policy, and comprehensive nuclear weapon disarmament talks never get off the ground. It doesn’t help that most people are utterly bewildered by any topic that requires a modicum of understanding of scientific, medical, or technical basics. For most people “indistinguishable from magic” honestly describes more than 95% of the tools and devices they use in their daily lives (and that’s probably be being extremely generous). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/7 "2010-09-30T01:53:59Z")
A lot of people just want a simple understanding of things. My party is good, so your party is bad. I don’t like to pay taxes, so taxes should be lower. I don’t have money, give me money. Those people may not want to invest in developing a deep understanding of a subject. That doesn’t mean that they will hold their opinion of any less value. After all, everythhing is just opinion, and all opinions are equal, so your detailed knowledge of a subject is just you showing off because you read a lot. But they are still right, and you could be too if you weren’t brain-washed by elitist ideology. So they won’t talk to you anymore, they only want to talk to the people who agree with them. And if you are talking to anybody it must be people who agree with you, so you are doing the same thing, which proves you have no better understanding than they do. So what are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/8 "2010-09-30T01:58:34Z")
So it basically boils down to a neurological deficiency in cognitive dissonance and ‘being a damn stubborn fool’? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/9 "2010-09-30T02:09:48Z")
Well, taking your own example, understanding the effects of the stimulus package requires somewhat of an understanding of economics, which many people don’t have. And even then, there are a lot of questions as to how much of an effect it really had and whether it is worth it to bail out those banks. In short, it’s a complex issue without a definitive answer that most people don’t have time to research. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/10 "2010-09-30T02:17:19Z")
How do you (the OP) determine whether a position is “a poorly thought-out position” versus just “a position I (the OP) disagree with”? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/11 "2010-09-30T02:17:42Z")
[Signalling](http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/09/opinion-warning-signs.html). People hold opinions to signal conformance with their peer group. It’s a form of tribal marker. No one can spend the time to learn the nuances of every issue. So a rational response to that is to find a group that in general matches what you believe, and then absorb the opinions of that group as fact. Repeating said opinions to others establishes your bona fides within the group. “Preaching to the converted” is a bonding ritual, not an attempt to learn. From the cite: > [@](#): > > **Signs that your opinions function more to signal loyalty and ability than to estimate truth:** > > [ol] > [li]You find it hard to be enthusiastic for something until you know that others oppose it.[/li][li]You have little interest in getting clear on what exactly is the position being argued.[/li][li] Realizing that a topic is important and neglected doesn’t make you much interested.[/li][li] You have little interest in digging to bigger topics behind commonly argued topics.[/li][li] You are less interested in a topic when you don’t foresee being able to talk about it.[/li][li] You are uncomfortable taking a position near the middle of the opinion distribution.[/li][li] You are uncomfortable taking a position of high uncertainty about who is right.[/li][li] You find it easy to conclude that those who disagree with you are insincere or stupid.[/li][li] You are reluctant to change your publicly stated positions in response to new info.[/li][li]You are reluctant to agree a rival’s claim, even if you had no prior opinion on the topic.[/li][li]You are reluctant to take a position that raises the status of rivals.[/li][li]You care more about consistency between your beliefs than about belief accuracy.[/li][li]You go easy on sloppy arguments by folks on “your side.”[/li][li]You have little interest in practical concrete implications of commonly argued topics.[/li][li]Your opinion doesn’t much change after talking with smart folks who know more.[/li][li]You are especially eager to drop names when explaining positions and arguments.[/li][li]You find it hard to list weak points and counter-arguments on your positions.[/li][li]You feel passionately about a topic, but haven’t sought out much evidence.[/li][li]You are reluctant to not have an opinion on commonly discussed topics.[/li] > [/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/12 "2010-09-30T02:26:45Z")
My impression is much of it comes down to trust. As in most people use heuristics to decide positions, and they’d rather listen to the person or source they find plausible, and will distrust people that they perceive as trying to make them feel stupid. Its not the inherent consistency of the position that necessarily takes priority. Edit: Bah too slow. Otara ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/13 "2010-09-30T06:25:40Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > How do you (the OP) determine whether a position is “a poorly thought-out position” versus just “a position I (the OP) disagree with”? “Barack Obama was born in Kenya.” “Vaccinations cause autism and don’t cure diseases.” “The WTC was destroyed by demolition charges.” It’s not hard to find commonplace opinions that any informed person of any political stripe can see are ridiculous. I’m cherry picking the REALLY easy ones. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/14 "2010-09-30T06:40:16Z")
Thinking things through thoroughly is thankless. ---
**Author:** ![Khaki\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Khaki\_Campbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khaki_Campbell)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/15 "2010-09-30T07:04:27Z")
> [@Captain\_C](#): > > Just to give a specific example (there are many, pick any GD thread), but one of which I hope this thread will not specifically focus upon: the concept that the recent stimulus package not fixing the economy. The argument against seems to be that since the stimulus did not bring the economy back to 100% health, it did absolutely nothing. Every time I see this argument espoused, it appears to never enter the heads of those who hold this view “Hey, maybe it didn’t make things as great as they were, but it sure helped make things one hell of a lot less bad than it could have been”. Now, I’m not saying that everyone would agree with this rebuttal. But it just appears that since it does not mesh with their previous argument, most will basically pretend the argument does not exist instead of either A) explaining why the point is invalid, or B) explaining why the point may be valid but is outweighed by other criteria. As noted above, this is just one example off the top of my head. Feel free to substitute in the issue/viewpoints of your choice. Economy is too complex and mysterious for people, even specialists (who pretend to understand it). Holding such a position on that stimulus package may not count as “poorly thought-out” while on the on other hand, there a far more stupid positions. Like, “astrology is an exact science”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/16 "2010-09-30T07:05:57Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Because if you actually stopped to reconsider your preconceptions every time you came across anomalous or contradictory evidence, you’d be totally paralyzed. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > People hold opinions to signal conformance with their peer group. It’s a form of tribal marker. I think these are both good answers. Note that both these points suggest reasons why evolution might select _against_ critical contemplation! The specific example in OP seems odd. I wouldn’t _expect_ an average person to go beyond the syllogism: (1) stimulus was supposed to help economy; (2) economy is still bad; (3) therefore stiumulus didn’t work. Though it may not be what you’re looking for, let me give two examples of people appearing less intelligent than one might expect. I knew an intelligent and successful electrical engineering manager. One day, discussing something not work-related, he said there were two possibilities so he didn’t see how the probabilities could be anything other than one-half each! The other example would be of people trusting their own intuition on matters like blackjack strategy, even though they should know published blackjack strategy was computer-correct. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/17 "2010-09-30T14:45:36Z")
“Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so.” Bertrand Russel ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/18 "2010-09-30T14:49:23Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > "If is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it” \*“You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I’ll tell you what his 'pinions is.” \* [Corn-pone Opinions.](http://www.paulgraham.com/cornpone.html) ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/19 "2010-09-30T14:55:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > “Barack Obama was born in Kenya.” > > “Vaccinations cause autism and don’t cure diseases.” > > “The WTC was destroyed by demolition charges.” > > It’s not hard to find commonplace opinions that any informed person of any political stripe can see are ridiculous. I’m cherry picking the REALLY easy ones. Let me point out that unless you’ve done serious research into these things, you aren’t actually a better “cognitive citizen” than people who believe these claims. I, for one, don’t believe these three claims, but I haven’t actually done any reading or serious thinking on the topics. Rather, I picked up from people around me that the evidence to support them is pretty flimsy. Well, most truthers and birthers did exactly the same thing - only the people around them happened to believe these charges. I’m not saying that there’s no such thing as truth and falsehood - among other things, a Bayesian understanding would suggest that the “vast majority opinion” tends to be right on most things. But it’s too easy to fall into the trap of smug superiority without realizing that most of us actually use the very same cognitive shortcuts as the groups we ridicule as ignorant - we just have the unearned advantage of living with the “right” social group. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544/20 "2010-09-30T15:35:04Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > > [@RickJay](#): > > > > “Barack Obama was born in Kenya.” > > > > “Vaccinations cause autism and don’t cure diseases.” > > > > “The WTC was destroyed by demolition charges.” > > > > It’s not hard to find commonplace opinions that any informed person of any political stripe can see are ridiculous. I’m cherry picking the REALLY easy ones. > > Let me point out that unless you’ve done serious research into these things, you aren’t actually a better “cognitive citizen” than people who believe these claims. I, for one, don’t believe these three claims, but I haven’t actually done any reading or serious thinking on the topics. Rather, I picked up from people around me that the evidence to support them is pretty flimsy. Well, most truthers and birthers did exactly the same thing - only the people around them happened to believe these charges. > > I’m not saying that there’s no such thing as truth and falsehood - among other things, a Bayesian understanding would suggest that the “vast majority opinion” tends to be right on most things. But it’s too easy to fall into the trap of smug superiority without realizing that most of us actually use the very same cognitive shortcuts as the groups we ridicule as ignorant - we just have the unearned advantage of living with the “right” social group. That’s just silly. In each of those cases there is plenty of easy to obtain evidence or simple logic to refute them. Have autism rates gone down now that mercury was taken out? Did autism rates coincide with the change in diagnostic criteria? Is Jenny McCarthy a reliable source of information on the topic? For the WTC, if you don’t think that is a closed topic then how do anything at all? How do you know your food isn’t poisoned, or that your mate is not a cyborg, or that looking at a computer screen won’t make you blind? Some ideas are just too damn stupid. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-a-significant-number-of-people-hold-poorly-thought-out-positions-on-major-topics/555544.md?page=2)