# Why do all New York City taxis look the same? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996 "2009-09-29T16:26:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/21 "2009-09-30T14:45:44Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Why all the restrictions? Why is it illegal to call a yellow cab for a pickup? It’s a distinction that apparently sprung up in the 1970s, and since then the regulatory regimes have diverged, making it difficult-to-impossible to be both a hail taxi and a For-Hire Vehicle at once. They talk about it a bit in the article **qazwart** linked to. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/22 "2009-09-30T15:03:06Z")
I’ll note, for the record, that after reading the Limo/Taxi Commission’s rules, that has to be the among the most anti-business local regulatory authority I’ve ever seen. I understand busting a guy’s balls if he’s an electrician or installing fire alarms, but at the end of the day this is just a vehicle driving around town. I hope other businesses in NYC don’t get beaten up by the city as badly as the taxi companies. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/23 "2009-09-30T18:35:37Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > I understand busting a guy’s balls if he’s an electrician or installing fire alarms, but at the end of the day this is just a vehicle driving around town. Not really. Taxis are an essential and integral part of the public transportation system in NYC. They function as kind of a “public utility” or somesuch. They’re standardized and controlled for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/24 "2009-10-01T14:10:00Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > I’ll note, for the record, that after reading the Limo/Taxi Commission’s rules, that has to be the among the most anti-business local regulatory authority I’ve ever seen. It’s not really that one-sided. Most of the rules have come into effect as part of fare increases. Tit for tat. The cab companies fight tooth and nail any regulation that they don’t like, if they don’t get some benefit. For instance, in 2004: [http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/news/press04\_01.shtml](http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/news/press04_01.shtml) A 26% fare increase, but now the cabs take credit cards and have GPS maps in them. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/25 "2009-10-01T14:58:51Z")
But those GPS maps will not help plot a route, nor give you an estimate of mileage and cost to your destination (cost being harder because of traffic considerations). The maps don’t help much at all. Credit cards are another story. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/26 "2009-10-01T21:21:11Z")
> [@](#): > > **[NYC Taxi medallion sold for record $600,000](http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/01/nyc-taxi-medallion-sold-for-record-600-000/)** > > Forget the stock market. If you’re in the possession of a NYC taxi medallion, you’re sitting on a goldmine. A retiring Pakistani driver who’d been driving a cab in New York for the last 25 years sold his medallion Wednesday for a staggering $600,000 – an all-time record for such a sale. The medallion, which gives cab drivers the right to operate legally in the city, cost $30,000 when it was purchased in 1981. The new owner is a taxi fleet operator who already owns somewhere around 100 medallions. > > Prices have been steadily rising in recent years, and at the last city-held auction, medallions fetched upwards of $500K. … > [@](#): > > [**600G MEDALLION NOT TOO SHABBY, CABBY**](http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/medallion_not_too_shabby_cabby_cOpni0dLCVtVuYGN4GMkqN) > > … Medallions, as an investment, pay off better than fares the cabs collect, experts say. > > “Medallion prices have doubled since 2003,” said Andy Murstein, president of Medallion Financial Corp., which financed the sale but didn’t disclose identities of the parties. > > “I’ve yet to find any investment that beats that, even over the past 60 years.” > > The city sold its first 11,787 taxi medallions in 1937 for just $10, but froze the number of medallions for six decades. > > Only in the past 10 years did the city hike the number of the coveted medallions, by holding three auctions to sell a total of 1,000. … > > …Over the past six decades, medallions lavished owners with gains twice that of stocks, or 15 percent annually compared to 8 percent for stocks. Where do I sign-up to get my balls busted? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/27 "2009-10-01T21:56:53Z")
I’d complain about the regulations of NYC cabs, but it only became legal just this year in LA to hail any cab from a curb. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/28 "2009-10-01T21:59:47Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > But those GPS maps will not help plot a route, nor give you an estimate of mileage and cost to your destination (cost being harder because of traffic considerations). The maps don’t help much at all. Agreed, there is no way someone who isn’t familiar with the city would be able to use the GPS map for anything useful. And those who are familiar don’t need it. And the thing plays ads with sound, which is awesome at 2 AM. But I included that because I think they were sold as a “benefit”. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/29 "2009-10-01T22:36:08Z")
> [@](#): > > … Medallions, as an investment, pay off better than fares the cabs collect, experts say. > > “Medallion prices have doubled since 2003,” said Andy Murstein, president of Medallion Financial Corp., which financed the sale but didn’t disclose identities of the parties. > > “I’ve yet to find any investment that beats that, even over the past 60 years.” > > The city sold its first 11,787 taxi medallions in 1937 for just $10, but froze the number of medallions for six decades. > > Only in the past 10 years did the city hike the number of the coveted medallions, by holding three auctions to sell a total of 1,000. … So the NYC area has gone from 1 cab/848 residents to 1 cab/1446 residents since 1937. In economics, I think that is what is called an _artificial shortage_. It causes an artificial rise in price, with buyers paying more, current owners/sellers getting a great increase in value. And cab customers pay more, while the city loses out on this increase in value. Almost leads you to believe that some politicians got paid off to keep this system. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/30 "2009-10-02T14:40:58Z")
They haven’t added any more roads though, and taxis are already 31% of the traffic in Manhattan (south of 86th St). ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/31 "2009-10-02T15:00:50Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > ]Non-yellow cabs who pull over and offer to take you places for a negotiated fee are called “gypsy cabs”, and are illegal but sometimes your only option. Illegal? But they have special license plates from the TLC – they must go through some sort of regulation? Do you mean it’s illegal to signal them curbside? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/32 "2009-10-02T15:48:42Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Illegal? But they have special license plates from the TLC – they must go through some sort of regulation? Do you mean it’s illegal to signal them curbside? Yup. A car service (“For-hire Vehicle”, or FHV in the parlance) can’t take a curbside hail. The driver is fined $100 for the first offense, $200 for the second, etc, and then at some point they lose their permit. BTW, Car service cars don’t have meters, and they charge a flat rate based on the trip, set by the dispatch office, not the driver. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/33 "2009-10-02T16:06:15Z")
I wonder how often this is really enforced. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/34 "2009-10-02T16:17:11Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I wonder how often this is really enforced. In the outer boroughs, rarely, I’d guess. Grabbing a passing car service for a quick in-neighborhood trip was certainly a common practice growing up in Brooklyn. In Manhattan though, passing cabbies would call them in so fast their head would spin. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/35 "2009-10-02T16:19:30Z")
I took them regularly in The Bronx; embarrassing to wave at a Town Car that ended up being a private citizen’s ride. :o ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_Lurker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/36 "2009-10-02T17:50:12Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I took them regularly in The Bronx; embarrassing to wave at a Town Car that ended up being a private citizen’s ride. :o I’m sure it happens to them all the time. I was actually picked up once by a private citizen benefiting on the look of his car to make a few extra bucks. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/37 "2009-10-02T18:12:47Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > BTW, Car service cars don’t have meters, and they charge a flat rate based on the trip, set by the dispatch office, not the driver. If you are picked up by one on a hail (in the outer boroughs, as others have noted), then get their fare upfront. You can negotiate there, and when someone doesn’t hit my price point (as I knew the yellow cab price for the ride), I move to the next car. I’ve had drivers try to renegotiate after the ride has started, but I shut that down pretty quickly. Also, I factor what I would tip into my accepted fare. So, if the ride costs $8 in a yellow cab, I’ll usually give $10, and expect the FHV to be around $12 (they tend to be slightly more expensive than the yellows on short trips). If the driver quotes $10, he gets $12. If he quotes $12, he gets $12. Why take non-yellows if they are more expensive? Outside of Manhattan, yellows are scarce, except along some major thoroughfares. FHVs are common. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/38 "2009-10-04T03:04:26Z")
From a Manhattan perspective, sometimes (particularly when yellow cabs are scarce), black cars will stop in response to people trying to hail cabs (or looking like they’re trying to hail a cab). They’ll almost always ask where you’re going, and if they’re free and your trip won’t take them too far afield, they’ll take you there. When taking them, it is quite useful to follow **D\_Odds** ’ s advice on fares. I generally prefer to take yellows, and will usually wait until a yellow comes along unless I’m very late and there don’t seem to be any yellows coming. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/39 "2009-10-04T03:55:26Z")
How hard would it be to set up a fake yellow cab? The paint and the decals presumably could be reproduced without much trouble. You’d need a fake ID to stick on the visor, but no one looks too closely at that. Would the meter and the light on top be difficult to get? ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996/40 "2009-10-04T04:34:13Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > How hard would it be to set up a fake yellow cab? The paint and the decals presumably could be reproduced without much trouble. You’d need a fake ID to stick on the visor, but no one looks too closely at that. Would the meter and the light on top be difficult to get? Well let’s see. Clearly there’s a lot of demand for taxis in NYC, yet there are a very fixed number of Taxi Medallions for sale to do this legally. They are not available just for walking in to the DMV, showing a license and filling out an application form, they are available only through relatively rare auctions held by the city; the most recent one [went for $766,000](http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2009-08-05-taxi-cab-new-york-city-medallions_N.htm) (that’s for ONE medallion, good for driving around ONE yellow cab in New York City). There’s a strong aftermarket for them, too, as they can even be seen as an investment vehicle (ha): the going price for a Medallion was only $339,000 as recently as 2004. That’s a lot of money invested in a scarce but highly in demand resource. Similar to, say, Union-licensed construction contracts for doing work around the city. Or hauling trash away. Yes sir. You might say it’s a sort of racket, with some people paying other people to Make Very Sure their investments are not eroded by undesirables moving in on the territory, _capisce_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-all-new-york-city-taxis-look-the-same/511996.md?page=3)