I remember the first time I heard that accent. The guy was from Dubuque. It just blew my mind. I’d been living in central Iowa for four months. He wasn’t an especially interesting person, but I hung on every word, intrigued by this odd speech.
I think New York might be the only place that needs an “upstate” designation. Illinois has a “downstate.” It’s kind of the same concept. New York City is the big city in the south of a state that’s much larger, though the larger part isn’t all small towns and farms. Likewise, Chicago is the big city in the north of a state that’s much larger, though the larger part isn’t all small towns and farms. A place like California wouldn’t do this, though; there are comparable cities in the north and the south.
I can think of other states that might have “upstates,” though. Michigan and Minnesota come to mind, but I’m not sure. Maybe Nevada. Does anyone know?
Conceivably, the following places could also have terms for their in-state hinterland – Boston, Baltimore, Atlanta, Miami, Seattle, Portland (Ore.), Providence, New Orleans, Little Rock, Mobile, Memphis, Milwaukee, Omaha, Wichita, Oklahoma City, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Detroit, Salt Lake City, Denver …
Let me elaborate, as I still think my original statement is true. I should have said, thoguh, that it is exceedingly rare for an adult to pick up an accent that he hasn’t been exposed to earlier in life.
Butler and I grew up hearing and speaking N.E. English. But, we heard Standard American English all the time (on radio, TV, movies, etc.). So our brains had been acclimated to the sounds of Standard American English whether we realized it or not, and it we could make that transition with some ease. If we tried to pick up an Australian accent, for example, that would be very difficult.
I would be very surprised if native Southerners couldn’t tell that your sister isn’t a “real” southerner by listening to her acquired accent. Similarly, I can always tell when an actor is trying to fake a Boston accent-- Norm on “Cheers”, for instance, doesn’t even come close to getting it right.
How dare you! I mean, even little Rhode Island has several different accents. They don’t sound in Newport the way they sound in Woonsocket. And those from Providence sound more like New Yorkers than they do Bostonians.
But, anyway, I’ve often thought about the Kennedys and President Clinton that SURELY all that education and time away from their hometowns would have had some effect on their accents. I smell an affectation, even if I am a fan.
George W. was born in 1946. So, he moved to Texas around the time he starting forming sentences. I have no doubt Bush’s accent is real, although he certainly hasn’t done anything to try to lose it.
I agree with your first and second sentences, but not the third. The Providence accent has some similarities to NY, but it’s much closer to a Boston sound than a NY sound. All in all, though, you gotta love the regional differences. After living in CA for so many years, I’m often amazed by how people living a few miles away can have different speech patterns.
The economic growth of the Sunbelt, which includes Texas and, more recently, the Carolinas, have attracted migrants from all over the US. One can conduct business in Houston and encounter receptionists and mid-level managers all day long and not engage a single Texan dialect-speaker, but rather with ambitious people who read the handwritinging on the wall in Albany NY or Dayton OH.
However, as for the elite who rise to electibility to national office, you’ll find that those with generations-old connections with the native soil need only apply. These folks will naturally have regional accents, as opposed to many of their constitiuents.
And yes, as a first-generation Texan GWB did waive this (as well as many another) rule, but unlike the original Texicans who swarmed there from Tennessee and Alabama, he did have a platform of cash and connections from which to launch himself. As for his speech pattern, I can only credit the fine, fine efforts of the Texas public school system.
Some of you have intriguing attitudes about accents.
Why would he ever have considered losing his accent? There is nothing inferior about it. He is intelligent, well-educated, and successful on many levels. I don’t understand why resistance and/or losing his accent was ever an issue.
Right. Bill should sound like he is a native of…Seattle? Maine? Long Island? He sounds to me like he grew up in Arkansas.
Polycarp, for once I disagree with you. There is not “standard American dialect or accent.” You mentioned the broadcast standard, but that should not be confused with any social or textbook standard. I also strongly disagree with you about the accent that sweeps from upstate New York across the midwest to the mountain states.
I think that acsenray is probably right about the changing broadcast standards. It was an artificial standard anyway, I was told. The broadcast schools were located mostly in the midwest. They aren’t anymore.
Within the United States, that depends on the gender of the person, where the person grew up and where the person is moving to – just for starters. (from a study I read years ago in college)
While George W. Bush’s family moved to Texas when he was a toddler, he spent much of his time back in Connecticut at the family home, and when he got to school age, he was sent to boarding school back east and then he went to college and business school in the east. The usual accent development period ends sometime in the 20s – usually the undergraduate stage, when people are making key decisions about their identity. By this age, Bush had spent a good deal of his formative years away from Texas.
I agree with Zoe on her points. There is absolutely no reason to suspect that Carter or Clinton’s accents are either fake or that they made an effort to hold on to them. Carter is a Georgian and Clinton is an Arkansan. It’s that simple. They didn’t go to boarding school.
Polycarp, for once I disagree with you. There is not “standard American dialect or accent.”
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I believe there is a Standard American English dialect, but I believe there is and never was any Standard American accent.
The “broadcast standard,” so far as there was one (radio and television stations were very local and their own announcers stuck to their own accents) was based on the Eastern American Theater Accent, which was based on a slightly Americanized version of British Received Pronunciation. (You can still get the instruction books and tapes – do an Amazon search for Edith Skinner) That’s why in the early movies, a lot of the actors sound vaguely British. They had been taught an artifical accent that was never in use in real life.
I’d like to point out that losing one’s accent can also be considered an affectation. If Bill Clinton had gone back to Arkansas with an accent noticeably colored by his time in Oxford, THAT would have been considered an affectation, and probably political suicide.
To another tangent, Minnesotans in the Twin Cities generally refer to the rest of the state as “up north.” (realizing that doesn’t cover the part of the state, such as Rochester, that is south of the Twin Cities). Everyone seems to have relatives or a cabin up north.
In SE Michigan, I’ve heard upstate, outstate, midstate, as well as Up North, Downriver, The Thumb, and others.
It helps to know that the Detroit area is pretty insular. “Outstate” is a very broad term referring to any part of Michigan more rural than this area. You know. Out that way <waves hand in a vague westerly direction>. “Midstate” is the general Lansing-to-Mt. Pleasant area, which is actually about 2/3rds of the way towards the south edge of the state and isn’t very “mid” at all, geographically. “Upstate” generally means anything north of the south edge of Saginaw Bay, with the exception of “The Thumb.”
“The Thumb” should be fairly self-explanatory. Draw a line roughly from Bay City to Port Huron as the border. “Up North” used to mean the U.P. almost exclusively, though more and more the term is confused with Upstate, and needs clarification that you’re crossing “The Bridge”. “West Michigan” is anything from Battle Creek westward, excluding anything considered Upstate. “Downriver” pretty much encompasses anything due south of Detroit to about Monroe or so, even though Monroe is next to Lake Erie, the River in question having opened into the lake several miles north. (Let’s not get into the fact that “the river” isn’t really a river at all.)
Those living from Marshall on south to the border, east of Three Rivers, and west of Adrian, are out of luck for a regional nickname. Truth is, we don’t really think about you people all that much.
Thus concludes the spectacular hijack of the “Why do all presidents have accents” thread.
What’s a “northern accent?” Do you mean “not southern?” There are several disnticnt regional accents in the eastern seaboard cties alone, changing in less than 100 miles distance
I don’t see any evidence that regional accents are fading. Anyone have a cite for that? Among non-mobile populations regional accents are still quite strong.
Finally, Philadelphians will refer to “upstate Pennsylvania” sometimes, occupying the same geographic and social relationship the rest of the state that NYC does to NY State.
Most dialects do have a related accent. This is often not true of standard dialects, however, and it is particularly not true of the Standard American dialect and the Standard British dialect (there is no Standard American accent, and the standard British accent (R.P.) is dying out). As noted above, most broadcasters speak the standard dialects in a variety of accents. People can, and often do, switch accents without switching dialects and vice versa.
(emphasis added). My dictionary, and discussions of dialog I have handy, agree that pronunciation is as much a part of dialog as vocabulary and grammar.
I mean, even little Rhode Island has several different accents. They don’t sound in Newport the way they sound in Woonsocket. And those from Providence sound more like New Yorkers than they do Bostonians.