# Why do American drivers do this? Are they purely short-sighted with no ability to think ahead? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 15, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666 "2018-08-15T17:12:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/41 "2018-08-15T20:18:58Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > This makes sense but it’s only a problem at the relatively small number of intersections that have (1) a left turn lane, (2) whose arrow doesn’t change at the same time as the green light for straight traffic, and (3) which has enough traffic to make the turn lanes hard to enter. It sounds like this describes your bugaboo intersection but I don’t run into this a lot. > > In my experience, the biggest problem getting into the turn lanes are people who stop 40 feet from the car in front of them. It only takes a few of those people to block all access to a short turn lane. Maybe this is only a small set of intersections where YOU live, but where I live that’s the norm–and the left turn lights are timed by how many cars are already on the turn lane sensors when the cross traffic lanes go red. Creepy coasters definitely contribute to jam ups because when there’s only two cars in the left turn lane but five more cars behind Creepy Coaster, the light lets only two cars go and those five cars are stuck until the next cycle, along with however many cars are behind THEM who need to turn left too. It’s annoying and unnecessary, plus, YOUR coasting speed might not be the same as what my car does so I’m having to brake early and often just to keep from smacking the Creepy Coaster in front of me whose car slows down much quicker than mine does–so thanks for the extra wear and tear on MY brakes at the expense of yours. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/42 "2018-08-15T20:29:06Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > In my experience, the biggest problem getting into the turn lanes are people who stop 40 feet from the car in front of them. It only takes a few of those people to block all access to a short turn lane. Yes, I hate that. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/43 "2018-08-15T20:35:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I like coasting when I see a red light ahead of me. Then, if I get there and it changes such that I can go thru without touching the brake, I win. This, but in my daily commute there’s one setting in particular where it makes sense. The last red light before I get to the hospital at which I work is at an intersection with the main (four-lane) road. If you see that light going red when you’re 100-150 yards away, you know that it’s going to be a long time (well, 90 seconds minimum anyway) before the cross traffic is stopped by a red light. Then, the cars coming out of the hospital get their own extended green light before ours turns green. So it makes sense to take your foot off the gas and coast (at maybe 25 mph instead of the 35 mph limit) to the red (nimrods can always roar by in the adjacent lane so they can sit at the light interminably). Drivers who speed up to red lights and screech to a stop typically have much the same motivation as the kind who weave madly in and out of traffic on the Interstate, saving previous milliseconds and instilling homicidal impulses in others. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/44 "2018-08-15T20:36:41Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If you don’t know the timing of the light you could be wasting gas. Your losing all your momentum and if the light turns green before you get there then you have to accelerate again. > > Since the driver behind you doesn’t know that you are driving slowly to conserve gas instead of because you are an inconsiderate fool then he’s likely to assume he ought to get ahead of you while he can in case the latter is the reason. The people who lose all the momentum are the people who charge to the red light and then have to slam on their brakes to a complete stop because the light is still red. People who coast when the light turns red can start to accelerate as soon as it turns green. Generally, light cycles aren’t so short that the light turns green before the coaster’s car gets to the light but, in the rare cases where the light does turn green before the coaster’s car gets there, coasters will have more momentum than the chargers stopped at the light. As for fuel economy, any modern car shuts off its fuel injectors and burns no gas when coasting to a stop. Charging to the light continues to burn fuel. Advantage: coasters. Eventually having to stop for the red light seems like the vast majority of lights to me. I say this as someone who coasts to the lights and therefore gives the lights roughly the maximum opportunity to change to green again before I get there. Chargers basically give the lights the minimum opportunity to change to green and thus are more likely to have to stop. In the rare cases where the light turns green while the coaster is still slowing, the coaster can begin accelerating. It will take less fuel to get back up to speed than if the coaster had to do it from a dead stop like the chargers. Advantage: coasters. When might chargers save fuel? If the charger races to the intersection, there is no one already stopped at the intersection, and the light turns green before the charger has slowed more than the coaster, perhaps the charger saves fuel. This seems like the small minority of lights. The charger will save fuel compared to the coaster only if the amount of fuel he burned charging to the light is greater than the fuel the coaster saved by coasting while slowing for the light. Advantage: uncertain. That ignores brake costs, which are always in favor of the coaster. Overall advantage: undoubtedly coasters. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/45 "2018-08-15T20:38:37Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Overall advantage: undoubtedly coasters. Except you forgot safety. People running a stale yellow will T bone your car if you are in the intersection as the light turns green. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/46 "2018-08-15T20:58:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except you forgot safety. People running a stale yellow will T bone your car if you are in the intersection as the light turns green. The same attentiveness to traffic conditions that allows me to slow for red lights also allows me to scan the intersection for cross traffic that isn’t stopping when their light turns red. Safety is also improved when people stop more gently in general. When Progressive first started using driving data to judge how safe drivers were, the first and most important piece of information they captured was not how fast drivers drove but how hard they braked. That gave them enough insight into driver risk to reduce certain drivers’ insurance rates. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/47 "2018-08-15T21:33:34Z")
How slow are the creepy coasters going? Some of these responses read like they’re going 15MPH 500 feet from the light. I’ll coast to a light, but I don’t creep along just because the light a block away is red. I’ll start coasting at the appropriate distance away, and down to an appropriate speed so that I still need to apply the brakes to actually stop, but not slam on them. What I think of as the people racing to the lights are the ones who are accelerating right up to the point they have to brake. That doesn’t make much sense. Around here though, I think a large portion of the cars that speed to a light are doing it out of obliviousness, not hurry. They just aren’t looking (or thinking) that far ahead. They’re the same cars who don’t take off on the green until they finish their tweet. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/48 "2018-08-15T21:39:51Z")
I’m in Portland, so 15mph 500 feet from the light is quite often exactly what it is. And I’m not talking about staying full on the gas and screeching to a halt, I’m talking about maintaining speed until it’s time to stop and most drivers know when that is. To start creeping along waaaaay in advance of when the braking moment should be is just being kind of a dick to everyone else on the road who just wants to drive normally and get their left turn light sometime today. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/49 "2018-08-15T21:40:08Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It’s because I’m actually thinking _farther_ ahead than you. I’m thinking about what you’ll likely be doing after the light goes back to green. So far you’ve shown that you’re one of those slow-ass drivers, and there’s a pretty good chance that you’ll still be that slow-ass at getting back up to speed after the light changes. > > We’re both better off if I’m ahead of you at that point. Yep. And where I live, the lights are triggered by sensors in the road. The sooner you get the light and trigger the sensor, the sooner it turns green. I especially hate it when people do that and prevent you from making into the left turn lane, missing the green light there. What do they care-- they’re not turning left? ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/50 "2018-08-15T21:41:12Z")
The best lights to use the coasting strategy at are the ones you can see the color of the cross road lights or the pedestrian crossing countdown timers (very rare.) Most of the lights I deal with are after dark so I can pickup the yellow or green glow in the shroud from a small distance to know whether I’m stopping or not. In regards to creeping up at the light, I drive a stick. Once the clutch is in, it does not come out again until I am accelerating. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/51 "2018-08-15T21:42:46Z")
One of the most blessedly sensible things I’ve seen on the road lately is that, in addition to dedicated left turn green lights they’ve added flashing yellow so left turn people can, if it’s safe to do so, turn at any time while the flashing yellow is active. If there’s too much opposing traffic for that to work, well, you still have the regular green arrow. My blood pressure has lowered considerably since those have come into fashion. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/52 "2018-08-15T22:42:45Z")
I see no difference between the flashing yellow arrow and the old green arrow/green light setup. If it’s the green light, you have to yield if turning left- how is the yellow arrow different? ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/53 "2018-08-15T22:58:45Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > I’m in Portland, so 15mph 500 feet from the light is quite often exactly what it is. And I’m not talking about staying full on the gas and screeching to a halt, I’m talking about maintaining speed until it’s time to stop and most drivers know when that is. To start creeping along waaaaay in advance of when the braking moment should be is just being kind of a dick to everyone else on the road who just wants to drive normally and get their left turn light sometime today. Does Portland have the same problem as Boulder? The car going 20mph under the speed limit isn’t being driven by an old lady, but rather a young man. (Genders are just for demonstration purposes. I’m sure there are plenty of old men who also drive slow, and plenty of young women who are too stoned to go 35.) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/54 "2018-08-15T23:01:08Z")
I happily will decrease my speed as I approach the stoplight, and as a general rule nobody cuts in front of me when I do so. When somebody _does_ cut ahead, I take special pleasure in blowing past them at that light or the next one when they’re starting from a complete stop and I’m already going ten miles an hour. The claim that people who moderate their speed as they approach the light will also inch out of it sound to me like they’re just trying to justify their habit of leaving rubber every time they stop. I tend to be first off the line myself, though I don’t actually floor it or anything. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/55 "2018-08-15T23:14:17Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I see no difference between the flashing yellow arrow and the old green arrow/green light setup. If it’s the green light, you have to yield if turning left- how is the yellow arrow different? Our turn lights are almost always either green arrow or red circle . If there’s no flashy yellow arrow, you wait there until it turns green, even if there’s fifteen miles of empty road coming the other way. There are relatively few lights that are green circle with left turn yield here, which is why the addition of flashy yellow is so awesome. Huge improvement! And going under the speed limit is just a Portland kind of thing, we tend to be pretty relaxed and not too much into the speed demon thing. Especially on surface streets–most of our streets are very old narrow streets with parking along both sides and plenty of pedestrians, bicyclists and now electric scooters all sharing the road and basically if anyone not in a car gets hit, the car driver gets blamed. So we tend to be cautious. For example, every street corner in Oregon, whether it has a zebra stripe crosswalk or not, is considered to BE a crosswalk, and if a pedestrian signals “intention to cross” and a car doesn’t stop for them, it’s a $250 ticket. So drivers tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to pedestrians, trying to figure out if they’ve given an “intention to cross” or not–and a LOT of pedestrians have taken this to mean they can dart into traffic at any time, from any place and everyone has to stop immediately and physics be damned. They’re wrong about that but nobody really wants to kill a pedestrian, y’know? So we’re a little slow. ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/56 "2018-08-15T23:21:42Z")
You drive the way you live. Some people can’t stand slowing or stopping for others, some trust to luck, some can’t trust their own two feet. That’s why driving skills have to be acquired with formal supervision. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/57 "2018-08-15T23:32:55Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > I am shocked to learn that slowing for the red light is unpredictably outside the norm. Do you drive in a Mad Max wasteland? Slowing for a red light is _quite obviously_ not unexpected. Coasting at a crawl up to a light hoping to time it right is much less expected, leading to the behavior that OP is complaining about. And I don’t want to be in the middle of that, or the tail end of a line of traffic slowing at an unusual pace lest I be the speedbump that wakes up the guy following who’s paying little attention. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/58 "2018-08-15T23:33:43Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The claim that people who moderate their speed as they approach the light will also inch out of it sound to me like they’re just trying to justify their habit of leaving rubber every time they stop. I tend to be first off the line myself, though I don’t actually floor it or anything. No, it’s something I see each and every day. Perhaps the commute conditions come into play. My commute is cars everywhere for 20 miles and numerous lights at various places mingled with 55 MPH speed limits that nobody follows. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/59 "2018-08-15T23:40:58Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Slowing for a red light is _quite obviously_ not unexpected. Coasting at a crawl up to a light hoping to time it right is much less expected, leading to the behavior that OP is complaining about. And I don’t want to be in the middle of that, or the tail end of a line of traffic slowing at an unusual pace lest I be the speedbump that wakes up the guy following who’s paying little attention. Attempting to ‘time it right’ seems like a very strange approach; my goal is to just not slam on the brakes or come to a jarring stop. Steady deceleration from a ways back until I inch to a stop on the bumper of the dude in front of me. (Okay, until I can _just see_ the bumper; I’m not looking to hitch myself to him.) The closest I come to ‘timing it’ is if the light _goes green_ as I’m coasting to a stop I’ll sometimes try to meter my speed such that the car in front of me gets moving before I have to completely stop. > [@Slash1972](#): > > No, it’s something I see each and every day. > > Perhaps the commute conditions come into play. My commute is cars everywhere for 20 miles and numerous lights at various places mingled with 55 MPH speed limits that nobody follows. When I see people come slow off the gate it’s usually because they’re on a cell phone or the like. Though I’ll _certainly_ concede that road conditions matter - my commutes are all entirely on roads with medium traffic and 35mph speed limits (that nobody follows). ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666/60 "2018-08-16T00:18:03Z")
I select my speed before leaving the house and engage my turn signal about 20 minutes before my corner to give people ample warning. What?! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-drivers-do-this-are-they-purely-short-sighted-with-no-ability-to-think-ahead/819666.md?page=4)