# Why do American Jewish voters favour the Democrats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 10, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456 "2011-11-10T01:36:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/181 "2011-11-21T20:40:19Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Oh, and P.S.: If you were truly Orthodox and didn’t believe in revisionism and adaptation, then you wouldn’t believe the stuff you say. Rejection of less- ‘observant’ [new to the Tribe] Jews is [a modern thing](http://www.jewishideas.org/min-hamuvhar/conversion-judaism-halakha-hashkafa-and-histori). > > snip > > You must be a 3rd generation revisionist. We are not. Apparently we’re closer to halachah than you are re: conversion. learn from the original sources and don’t just qoute things you don’t understand. Learn the rishoniem on the gemara in shabbos on ger shenisgayir bein hagoyim. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/182 "2011-11-21T20:50:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Washington - Poll: Chassidic/Orthodox Are Strongest Anti-Obama Group - VINnews](http://www.vosizneias.com/55181/2010/05/09/washington-poll-chassidic-orthodox-are-strongest-anti-obama-group) > > **The strongest anti-Obama groups within Jewish-Americans are Hassidic/Orthodox, who polled 69%-17%**. Next came Conservative Jews (50%-38%), and then Jewish-Americans with family or friends living in Israel (50%-42%). > > Reform Jews still support Obama by a slim margin of 52%-36%. That doesn’t tell us much about “American Jews supporting the Democrats”, for two reasons: 1. Obama’s approval rating is not really germaine to party membership/voting 2. Knowing the political stances of the various Jewish denominations means nothing without also knowing their relative numbers, in terms of addressing what the religion as a whole thinks. The best (most recent) reference on this that I can easily find is sadly more than a decade out of date, [from 1997](http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/17085.pdf). It gives the percentages as 7% Orthodox, 40% Conservative, 38% Reform, and 15% Other/No Preference. When compared with your statistics, that still might well measure out to a overall support for Obama anyway, depending on how much overlap there is between the cohort of “Jewish-Americans with Israeli friends/family” and the others, and how the “No Preference” Jews weigh in. ---
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/183 "2011-11-21T21:01:55Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > That doesn’t tell us much about “American Jews supporting the Democrats”, for two reasons: > > 1. Obama’s approval rating is not really germaine to party membership/voting > 2. Knowing the political stances of the various Jewish denominations means nothing without also knowing their relative numbers, in terms of addressing what the religion as a whole thinks. > > The best (most recent) reference on this that I can easily find is sadly more than a decade out of date, [from 1997](http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/17085.pdf). It gives the percentages as 7% Orthodox, 40% Conservative, 38% Reform, and 15% Other/No Preference. > > When compared with your statistics, that still might well measure out to a overall support for Obama anyway, depending on how much overlap there is between the cohort of “Jewish-Americans with Israeli friends/family” and the others, and how the “No Preference” Jews weigh in. in regards to the percentages their were ones done in 2000 (I think they had much different results) (as a side point the true Orthodox population as opposed to the a group that wasn’t really Orthodox but when they did things they did properly) > **[NJPS2000\_American\_Jewish\_Religious\_Denominations.pdf](https://www.jewishdatabank.org/Archive/NJPS2000_American_Jewish_Religious_Denominations.pdf)** > > 44.96 KB read specifically page 5 (keep in mind all these survey have different formulas changing thing a few % points) in regards to the voting assume (and they don’t put up Ron Paul) it wouldn’t be worse then this > **[American\_Jews\_and\_the\_2008\_Presidential\_Election.pdf](https://www.jewishdatabank.org/Reports/American_Jews_and_the_2008_Presidential_Election.pdf)** > > 44.96 KB ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/184 "2011-11-21T21:16:48Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > (Or, I suppose, get married in Israel where they seem to have taken the “truly converted” bit to heart, and will happily say to someone who is converted that they are [not truly Jewish unless the rabbit doing it was Orthodox \* enough \*](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_to_Judaism).) Yeah. All conversions performed by rabbits are throwbacks to Judaisms pagan roots. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/185 "2011-11-21T21:17:32Z")
The table on Page 7 of your first cite (Table 2) gives numbers of Orthodox 10% Conservative 27% Reform 35% Reconstructionist 2% Other 26% In other words, an even worse breakdown than the 1997 study I found if you are trying to prove that Jews in general are actually not all that likely to be Obama supporters/Democrats because Orthodox in specific are highly opposed. Incidentally, Table 3 shows that a significant number of children leave the Orthodox (approximately half) and Conservative (approx 5%) by adulthood, generally in the direction of Reform or No Preference. So the demographic shift isn’t really working in the direction you’re claiming, either. Your second cite, I find very weak on its support for its claims. ---
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/186 "2011-11-21T21:22:44Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The table on Page 7 of your first cite (Table 2) gives numbers of > Orthodox 10% > Conservative 27% > Reform 35% > Reconstructionist 2% > Other 26% > > In other words, an even worse breakdown than the 1997 study I found if you are trying to prove that Jews in general are actually not all that likely to be Obama supporters/Democrats because Orthodox in specific are highly opposed. > > Incidentally, Table 3 shows that a significant number of children leave the Orthodox (approximately half) and Conservative (approx 5%) by adulthood, generally in the direction of Reform or No Preference. So the demographic shift isn’t really working in the direction you’re claiming, either. > > Your second cite, I find very weak on its support for its claims. I told you all these study’s can’t be compared to each other unless they have the same formulas. the one thing that you missed is the how old those who left Orthodoxy are. Right now the estimates are at 10%, the source for the high numbers of people who left came from many people who are now senior citizens (at a time period when there were so many differences both in education and who would call himself Orthodox). ---
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/187 "2011-11-21T21:29:57Z")
look at page 2 from this study and understand that the Orthodox retention rate was miles apart (for before WWII) then from when this was after WWII. > **[NJPS1971-Jewish\_Identity.pdf](https://www.jewishdatabank.org/Archive/NJPS1971-Jewish_Identity.pdf)** > > 44.96 KB ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/188 "2011-11-21T21:30:29Z")
> [@NY\_JEW](#): > > I told you all these study’s can’t be compared to each other unless they have the same formulas. > > the one thing that you missed is the how old those who left Orthodoxy are. Right now the estimates are at 10%, the source for the high numbers of people who left came from many people who are now senior citizens (at a time period when there were so many differences both in education and who would call himself Orthodox). I’m not comparing any studies–I’m simply reading numbers from a study you supplied as authoritative, and using them to make the point that numbers of relative support in any given denomination of Judaism don’t prove anything unless you also have relative population counts for those denominations. ---
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/189 "2011-11-21T22:38:16Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I’m not comparing any studies–I’m simply reading numbers from a study you supplied as authoritative, and using them to make the point that numbers of relative support in any given denomination of Judaism don’t prove anything unless you also have relative population counts for those denominations. I’m going to give you different cities (that’s done by the same group) Orthodox jewish % changes of total jewish population to show you what’s going on since the 90’s. [http://www.jewishdatabank.org/community.asp](http://www.jewishdatabank.org/community.asp) this is based on households (Orthodox jews are more likely to be married) New York (includes LI and Westchester) 1991 2002 all 8 counties (13%) (19%) Bronx (14%) (20%) Brooklyn (29%) (37%) Manhattan (7%) (11%) Queens (12%) (20%) Staten Island (10%) (10%) Nassau (5%) (11%) Suffolk (2%) (3%) Westchester (5%) (9%) Atlanta metro 1996 (3%) 2006 (10%) Baltimore metro 1999 (17%) 2010 (21%) (to show you what I mean by the household problem 32% of all jews in (2010) Baltimore are Orthodox) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/190 "2011-11-21T22:43:39Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > When compared with your statistics, that still might well measure out to a overall support for Obama anyway, depending on how much overlap there is between the cohort of “Jewish-Americans with Israeli friends/family” and the others, and how the “No Preference” Jews weigh in. Did I ever say different? Of COURSE Jews in general overall support Obama by a big margin. The point I was making was that the more “conservative” or “religious” the Jew, the less support for Obama there is. To the point that among the Orthodox, the support for Obama is almost in single digits. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/191 "2011-11-21T22:44:40Z")
> [@NY\_JEW](#): > > most reform jews would either vote for Hitler or at least not vote for the republican opposition candidate if Hitler ran on a final solution platform (provided they were immune from it?) especially if he was in favor of abominations like gay “marriage” (I know he wouldn’t be) Even given such an outlandish premise, you still felt the need to put a question mark in the bracketed part as if it’s open to question that someone would not vote for a candidate one of whom’s manifesto promises was to kill them. ---
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/192 "2011-11-21T22:55:48Z")
Cleveland 1996 (10%) 2004 (10.5) Miami 1994 (9%) 2004 (13%) ---
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/193 "2011-11-21T22:56:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Did I ever say different? Of COURSE Jews in general overall support Obama by a big margin. The point I was making was that the more “conservative” or “religious” the Jew, the less support for Obama there is. To the point that among the Orthodox, the support for Obama is almost in single digits. in some areas it’s in the decimal points. ---
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/194 "2011-11-21T23:06:28Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > Even given such an outlandish premise, you still felt the need to put a question mark in the bracketed part as if it’s open to question that someone would not vote for a candidate one of whom’s manifesto promises was to kill them. people’s stupidity never seems to amaze me, explain to why jews love FDR who was one of the biggest anti semtis (if not the biggest) ever in the white house. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/195 "2011-11-21T23:16:51Z")
> [@NY\_JEW](#): > > people’s stupidity never seems to amaze me, explain to why jews love FDR who was one of the biggest anti semtis (if not the biggest) ever in the white house. I know this is going to sound crazy, but maybe they liked the New Deal policies and even his nomination of the first Jewish Supreme Court justice. (Actually maybe the second.) I think it’s bizarre that you think FDR was such an anti-Semite when the anti-Semites of the period despised FDR- and many of them were convinced he was secretly Jewish. Which reminds me of absolutely nothing in contemporary politics, by the way. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/196 "2011-11-21T23:34:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I know this is going to sound crazy, but maybe they liked the New Deal policies and even his nomination of the first Jewish Supreme Court justice. (Actually maybe the second.) I think it’s bizarre that you think FDR was such an anti-Semite when the anti-Semites of the period despised FDR- and many of them were convinced he was secretly Jewish. Which reminds me of absolutely nothing in contemporary politics, by the way. 😉 St Louis, Slattery Report, refusing to bomb the track or gaschamber of Auschwitz, refusing to meet with the rabbis in the rabbis march on Washington ext. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/197 "2011-11-21T23:54:14Z")
> [@NY\_JEW](#): > > I’m going to give you different cities We are talking about “American Jews”, not “Jews from three cherry-picked cities.” Bring national cites–no city-by-city cite is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/198 "2011-11-22T00:37:23Z")
> [@NY\_JEW](#): > > St Louis, Slattery Report, refusing to bomb the track or gaschamber of Auschwitz, refusing to meet with the rabbis in the rabbis march on Washington ext. We’ve had a lot of debates about any of these items and I’m not going to attempt to recap them other than to say there are potential reasons other than anti-Semitism- particularly on the part of FDR, so they don’t do much to support your allegation that he was an anti-Semite (the public in general was pretty anti-Semitic at that point) and of course they don’t respond to the points I made about why Jews did vote for him. You can pretend they don’t exist, but they do. ---
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/199 "2011-11-22T01:01:31Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > We are talking about “American Jews”, not “Jews from three cherry-picked cities.” Bring national cites–no city-by-city cite is relevant. they stopped doing them because there was to much arguments on methodology. it’s not just cherry picked cities (I couldn’t find results for many city in recent years) it’s cities that constitute most of the Orthodox jewish population in the USA that I could find the results from 2 different surveys (after the time periods that Orthodoxy started to rebound which first happened in select cities in the NE then spread out to all but the areas that never had that big a Orthodox population anyways (SF aside)) (I only have 1 for Bergen county results and none for Ocean County or Rockland County which together (just a quick glance of the census numbers shows how big the Orthodox numbers grew here) keep in mind that most Orthodox jews live in the metro areas of all the cities I mentioned Boston metro 1995 (3%) 2005 (5%) Detroit metro 1989 (7%) 2005 (11%) Philadelphia metro (in PA only) 1996/1997 (4%) 2009 (6%) just to show you I’m nit cherry picking here’s one that has and had almost no Orthodox jews any ways but % went down Howard County, Maryland 1999 (2%) 2010 (1%) and here’s a city for you Denver metro 1997 (3%) 2007 (2%) one of the problems is some cites like LA had a loss from 1979-1997 but LA would of have only started to stop the bleeding in the late 80s to early 90’s and that wasn’t enough to show up on this. ---
**Author:** ![NY\_JEW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9a140/32.png) [@NY\_JEW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NY_JEW)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456/200 "2011-11-22T01:15:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We’ve had a lot of debates about any of these items and I’m not going to attempt to recap them other than to say there are potential reasons other than anti-Semitism- particularly on the part of FDR, so they don’t do much to support your allegation that he was an anti-Semite (the public in general was pretty anti-Semitic at that point) and of course they don’t respond to the points I made about why Jews did vote for him. You can pretend they don’t exist, but they do. yes they do but if because of the new deal you still defend Roosevelt tells me that **YOU** most likely would be one of those jews who would rationalize voting for Hitler on a final solution ticket just because he’s a democrat. (and if you find it hurtfull, I find it hurtful that you would defend someone who caused millions to die based on his anti semetic decisions just because of the new deal) tell me why would he refuse to meet with the rabbis, I understand there could be some political benefit (that he would care about more then millions of jews but I’ll try to ignore that) but what possible rational (other then guilt) could he have for refusing to meet with people trying to save other people when that caused a big scandal. I’ll love to hear how you defend what he did with the Slattery Report. (was he afraid of losing Alaska’s 0 electoral votes? and even if he for what ever reason he couldn’t have more than 10,000 refugees a year why say that only 10% out of that could be Jewish when Jews were the ones in the biggest jeopardy) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-jewish-voters-favour-the-democrats/602456.md?page=11)