# Why do American Networks "re-work" successful TV formulae? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940 "2010-08-11T15:54:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/61 "2010-08-13T16:21:48Z")
[quote=“Pleonast, post:60, topic:549940”] I watched the American Office regularly and tried to watch the British version. What you call “je ne sais quoi” in the original, I’d call British provincialism. /QUOTE] Provincialism? In British English the primary definition, from Collins, is an insult > [@](#): > > narrowness of mind or outlook; lack of sophistication while the primary definition from American Heritage isn’t > [@](#): > > A regional word, phrase, pronunciation, or usage. A good example of why programmes get remade, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/62 "2010-08-13T16:30:00Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I watched the American Office regularly and tried to watch the British version. What you call “je ne sais quoi” in the original, I’d call British provincialism. I couldn’t get it. The motivations of the characters were inscrutable, the situations unrelatable, and the speech patterns difficult. I’m sure it all works into something funny to those familiar with British culture, but I’m guessing the humor is all in the subtleties, because I missed it completely. I’ve often thought that TV sitcoms highlight US-UK culture differences quite starkly. We in the UK seem to like the central characters in our sitcoms to epitomise failure - Ricky Gervais’s character in The Office squirms wretchedly from start to finish, and we love it! See also Basil in Fawlty Towers muttering “that was your life, mate” to himself, or the downward arc through society that Blackadder follows, or Reginald Perrin’s resigned attitude to his train being 11 minutes late every day, or Dad’s Army’s Capt Mainwaring, or a whole host of dads-in-suburbia-at-the-mercy-of-their-families. Whereas in US sitcoms you seem (warning, sweeping generalisation that you’ll be able to counter with “yeah? what about X?” quite easily) to like your central characters to epitomise success, even if (Frasier, for example) they’re beset by vicissitudes. This, I think explains the change in emphasis in the US The Office. (In contrast to the UK examples above, a glance at A to C on the wikipedia page on [US sitcoms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_television_sitcoms) yields three “Adventures of”, one “Controls the Universe”, sheriffs, private eyes, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![kim\_jung\_il](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kim\_jung\_il](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kim_jung_il)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/63 "2010-08-13T17:00:27Z")
Don’t get me wrong, there are tons of US shows I love and if the UK tried to copy, I think they’d ruin them. But things that start out as British ideas are bastardized by US producers (the Office being the exception). I get that Top Gear may have to be tweaked to include American cars, but surely changing the hosts, content, jokes, format and the cars is a bit much. The original magic is gone. Who Do You Think You Are has changed from an interesting puzzle that slowly builds, into 3 minutes of story, 5 minutes of recap, 3 minutes of story, 5 minutes of recap. And believe it or not, Craig Ferguson used to be funny! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/64 "2010-08-13T17:04:04Z")
> [@kim\_jung\_il](#): > > And believe it or not, Craig Ferguson used to be funny! 😉 Bing Hitler! ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/65 "2010-08-13T17:33:39Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > 11PM Chef Ramsay swears at some small animals and the cooks and eats them. I’d watch that. > [@Aversin](#): > > Which version or Ramsey’s show is aired on BBC America? I’ve seen both the US and UK version of Kitchen Nightmares on BBC America. For those who have only seen Ramsey on KN or Hell’s Kitchen, if you’re interested, you should check him out on “The F Word”. The majority of the time he is in a good/happy mood and you get to see some of his homelife like when he was rasing pigs and turkeys in his backyard/garden. There is also a segment where he or one of his friends goes on a little adventure about food. One time he went to Jeremy Clarksons house to catch and cook lobster. Janet Street Porter once went to Germany ( I think it was Germany) to try out camels milk and she brought some back to Ramsey trying to convince him to serve it in his restuarants. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/66 "2010-08-13T18:33:12Z")
> [@kim\_jung\_il](#): > > And believe it or not, Craig Ferguson used to be funny! 😉 When did he stop being funny? And to go along with **Pleonast** above, I don’t find the British Office to be as riotously funny as it’s supposed to be. It’s clever, and at times very funny, but the way its hooked into British office life means that no one outside the UK in the year 2001 will get the full effect of it. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/67 "2010-08-13T19:12:37Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > And to go along with **Pleonast** above, I don’t find the British Office to be as riotously funny as it’s supposed to be. It’s clever, and at times very funny, but the way its hooked into British office life means that no one outside the UK in the year 2001 will get the full effect of it. I don’t think it was ever supposed to be _riotously_ funny, although there were certainly funny parts. I had to watch other parts of it through my fingers because I was cringing so much in sympathetic embarrassment. The ending had me in manly happy tears, of course. But yes, there’s a lot going on there in terms of class, custom, the minutiae of British office life and the various awkward niceties of British (well, English) social interaction that probably don’t translate all that well to another audience. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/68 "2010-08-13T20:58:43Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > > > And to go along with **Pleonast** above, I don’t find the British Office to be as riotously funny as it’s supposed to be. It’s clever, and at times very funny, but the way its hooked into British office life means that no one outside the UK in the year 2001 will get the full effect of it. > > I don’t think it was ever supposed to be _riotously_ funny, although there were certainly funny parts. I had to watch other parts of it through my fingers because I was cringing so much in sympathetic embarrassment. The ending had me in manly happy tears, of course. But yes, there’s a lot going on there in terms of class, custom, the minutiae of British office life and the various awkward niceties of British (well, English) social interaction that probably don’t translate all that well to another audience. Maybe cringe humor is one of those provincial things. I love lots of limey shows, but the appeal of The Office (UK) is just something I didn’t see. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/69 "2010-08-13T21:12:47Z")
> [@jinty](#): > > We in the UK seem to like the central characters in our sitcoms to epitomise failure - Ricky Gervais’s character in The Office squirms wretchedly from start to finish, and we love it! See also Basil in Fawlty Towers muttering “that was your life, mate” to himself, or the downward arc through society that Blackadder follows, or Reginald Perrin’s resigned attitude to his train being 11 minutes late every day, or Dad’s Army’s Capt Mainwaring, or a whole host of dads-in-suburbia-at-the-mercy-of-their-families. > Whereas in US sitcoms you seem (warning, sweeping generalisation that you’ll be able to counter with “yeah? what about X?” quite easily) to like your central characters to epitomise success, even if (Frasier, for example) they’re beset by vicissitudes. I realize you pre-weaseled your generalization, but still, I present [the longest-running US sitcom](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Simpsons) in contrast. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/70 "2010-08-13T21:54:33Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Maybe cringe humor is one of those provincial things. I love lots of limey shows, but the appeal of The Office (UK) is just something I didn’t see. > > -Joe It’s maybe a comedy of manners, of etiquette, of farce, of excruciating faux-pas? Cast of idiots? I don’t know, I’m just making this up as I go along. My all time favourite comedy show is _Frasier_ and that show seems to me to be along those lines, very British. I loved _Cheers_ too, but that had more warmly drawn and sympathetic characters and was more wisecrack based. ---
**Author:** ![kim\_jung\_il](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kim\_jung\_il](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kim_jung_il)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/71 "2010-08-14T02:02:48Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > > [@kim\_jung\_il](#): > > > > And believe it or not, Craig Ferguson used to be funny! 😉 > > When did he stop being funny? About the time he got his own talk show. He is desperately unfunny now, but has lost his edge. He now ranks about the same as David Letterman and Jay Leno, i.e. funny once every 3 or 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/72 "2010-08-14T02:35:16Z")
> [@kim\_jung\_il](#): > > About the time he got his own talk show. He is desperately unfunny now, but has lost his edge. He now ranks about the same as David Letterman and Jay Leno, i.e. funny once every 3 or 4 years. You know what he was like before moved to the US, yes? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/73 "2010-08-14T05:01:39Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > 1. There are plenty of Americans who “don’t understand” British accents, let alone British humor. They automatically turn off anything that sounds “funny” to them… _Ya fookin’ DAFT, mon? We bloody colonists do a’right… … guv’nor!_ ---
**Author:** ![kim\_jung\_il](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kim\_jung\_il](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kim_jung_il)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/74 "2010-08-14T13:53:24Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > > [@kim\_jung\_il](#): > > > > About the time he got his own talk show. He is desperately unfunny now, but has lost his edge. He now ranks about the same as David Letterman and Jay Leno, i.e. funny once every 3 or 4 years. > > You know what he was like before moved to the US, yes? Yeah, I’m Scottish as well mate. Bing Hitler and the TV show he had just before his move to the States. He’s obviously altered his comedy for the US, so its watered down a lot now. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/75 "2010-08-14T15:43:40Z")
> [@kim\_jung\_il](#): > > > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > > > You know what he was like before moved to the US, yes? > > Yeah, I’m Scottish as well mate. Bing Hitler and the TV show he had just before his move to the States. He’s not wired to the moon any more either, that’s going to have an effect. I must admit he seems pretty good on the clips I’ve seen of his chat show, certainly better than that pile of shite David Letterman. ---
**Author:** ![dada2fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ccd318/32.png) [@dada2fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dada2fish)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/76 "2010-08-15T01:37:13Z")
I’m in the US and I loved the UK’s version of The Office. I would roll on the floor laughing at times when I watched it. To me, it covered work humor really well and all the strange people you inevitably work with in real life. Then when the US version came out, well, it’s ok, but it’s so over the top. The humor is gone because I can’t relate to it anymore. Nobody at the office in real life acts like these people. Subtlety people. ---
**Author:** ![kim\_jung\_il](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kim\_jung\_il](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kim_jung_il)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/77 "2010-08-15T04:38:15Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > > [@kim\_jung\_il](#): > > > > Yeah, I’m Scottish as well mate. Bing Hitler and the TV show he had just before his move to the States. > > He’s not wired to the moon any more either, that’s going to have an effect. I must admit he seems pretty good on the clips I’ve seen of his chat show, certainly better than that pile of shite David Letterman. If I am honest with myself, I was probably exaggerating. He is still quite funny, just not as funny as he used to be. He’s certainly more funny than any of the other US talk show hosts. I think by US standards, Craig is still quite “out there”. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/78 "2010-08-15T05:11:05Z")
But as a talk show host he also isn’t really doing stand-up anymore. The goal isn’t the same. I haven’t seen his stand-up act these days so I have no idea how funny that is. ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/79 "2010-08-17T15:15:05Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I watched the American Office regularly and tried to watch the British version. What you call “je ne sais quoi” in the original, I’d call British provincialism. I couldn’t get it. The motivations of the characters were inscrutable, the situations unrelatable, and the speech patterns difficult. I’m sure it all works into something funny to those familiar with British culture, but I’m guessing the humor is all in the subtleties, because I missed it completely. > > Because comedy relies so much on cultural expectations, I am not at all surprised that comedies are regularly remade for different audiences. British and American cultures are not simply the same as other except for odd accents; there’s no reason to expect what’s funny for one will be for the other. > > BTW, your use of “a more refined viewer” is insulting, even if it wasn’t your intent to be. I’m not British. But I don’t believe one had to be to appreciate the gist of what was going on in this program. You just needed to be receptive to, what was at the time, an original (/foreign) comedic formula. The guy was an attention-seeker who played up to the camera in a ‘documentary’ that was being filmed of his intra-workplace goings on. The US version completely threw this out and just went with a camera following some po-faced jobber around documenting his unfunny work-a-day mundanities. It was like a sitcom with a lot fail-hard attempts at scripted humor, than a mockumentary that’s inherently funny for virtue of its ad lib seeming nature. As a situation comedy per se, I think you’d agree The Office formula would have failed horribly. Well, what the transition to US TV did was make the show more palatable and less awkward for American viewers to digest - the very ‘inedible’ ingredients that made the show funny in the first place. Thus, it effectively turned into a hackneyed sitcom. Hence, it failed in the eyes of the majority (hearsay and anecdotal, I know) of those who enjoyed the UK original. **PS:** To take offense to something implies there’s an element of truth therein. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940/80 "2010-08-17T15:30:11Z")
[quote=“Baron\_Greenback, post:61, topic:549940”] > [@Pleonast](#): > > I watched the American Office regularly and tried to watch the British version. What you call “je ne sais quoi” in the original, I’d call British provincialism. /QUOTE] > > Provincialism? > > In British English the primary definition, from Collins, is an insult > > > [@](#): > > > > narrowness of mind or outlook; lack of sophistication > > while the primary definition from American Heritage isn’t > > > [@](#): > > > > A regional word, phrase, pronunciation, or usage. > > A good example of why programmes get remade, perhaps? **Translation:** A lack of culture in British/non American parlance equates to insularity. In the US it’s patriotism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-networks-re-work-successful-tv-formulae/549940.md?page=5)