# Why do American sports fans call their champion teams "World Champions"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 4, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874 "2011-11-04T17:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/81 "2011-11-06T20:47:11Z")
> [@Bosstrain](#): > > Why do the citizens of the United States of America refer to their country as just America? As if there is only one country on either North or South American continents… > > The answer to both questions are the same…extreme arrogance, on a level that has never before been seen on the face of this planet. The only other civilization that was even close to this level of arrogance would be the Roman Empire, yet the USA has managed to surpass it with ease. > > Does that answer the question? > > 🙂 Assuming you are correct, that the citizens of the USA say “America” because they are arrogant, as opposed to just using a term that they grew up with - what specific behaviors would you attribute to this arrogance so we can determine if this is accurate or not. Other than using the term “America” - what behaviors could only be attributed to arrogance? ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/82 "2011-11-06T23:01:50Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Assuming you are correct, that the citizens of the USA say “America” because they are arrogant, as opposed to just using a term that they grew up with - what specific behaviors would you attribute to this arrogance so we can determine if this is accurate or not. > > Other than using the term “America” - what behaviors could only be attributed to arrogance? I think he’s making a joke. Particularly since most other countries refer to us as Americans as well. To oversimplify why this is, the U.S. was the first established independent nation in the Americas. (We could have been called “Columbians” if some had gotten their way.) ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/83 "2011-11-06T23:07:35Z")
And to clarify before someone gets pedantic on me, I’m referring to nations that exist in modern times. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Bosstrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstrain)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/84 "2011-11-06T23:20:05Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > I think he’s making a joke. Particularly since most other countries refer to us as Americans as well. No, sorry, not a joke, I don’t have enough time ATM, but I could easily bring forth many occasions where the USA has displayed its arrogance, for starters, interference with foreign countries. To keep from derailing this thread, if you’d like to discuss this further, please feel free to start another. Send me a PM if you or someone else does, I’d be happy to discuss this :). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/85 "2011-11-06T23:39:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see why they wouldn’t. India beat all the other countries that competed in the 2010 Kabbati World Cup tournament (including the United States). You guys beat us fair and square (62-26) and went on to beat Canada and Pakistan. India is clearly entitled to call themselves the World Champion of Kabaddi. (At least until November 20 anyway.) Wait, there’s a World Cup Championship in _Red Rover_? And we Americans are **not** the champions? We need to get on this right away. Contact your local elementary schools and tell them they need to step it up right now! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/86 "2011-11-07T02:29:08Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Tell you what- name me a SINGLE American-style football team in Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, South America, or ANYWHERE else in the world that MIGHT be as good as the worst team in the NFL, and I’ll reconsider. :smack: That’s not the point. The worst team in the NFL _plays in the NFL_. The champions of a national league cannot be “world champions” by definition. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/87 "2011-11-07T04:08:55Z")
> [@Bosstrain](#): > > Why do the citizens of the United States of America refer to their country as just America? As if there is only one country on either North or South American continents… > > The answer to both questions are the same…extreme arrogance, on a level that has never before been seen on the face of this planet. **[MODERATING]** If as you said this isn’t a joke, then you’re disregarding a specific moderator instruction and engaging in being-a-jerk behaviour. Do not do this again. This is a formal warning. Further such nonsense in this thread, by anyone, will close it. RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/88 "2011-11-07T04:31:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > :smack: That’s not the point. The worst team in the NFL _plays in the NFL_. The champions of a national league cannot be “world champions” by definition. Unless that definition is just a practical, matter-of-fact one. There aren’t any football teams anywhere that would pretend that the NFL playoffs are not a de facto pitting against each other of all the American football (the sport, not the location) teams most qualified to compete for the title of world champion. Lots of teams are disqualified from consideration, but it’s literally impossible for them to have world-class American football players on them. If you want to compete at the highest international levels of gridiron football in the world we live in, you come to America and play in the NCAA and then the NFL. The fact that it wouldn’t necessarily be true if things were different and there was a super good Chinese Football League doesn’t mean it hasn’t been accurate in practice every time it’s come up. Since there’s no possible set of circumstances that will result in our discovering a football team that could compete against the best NFL teams, what’s wrong with the tiny jump from best in the world to world champion? ---
**Author:** ![Molesworth\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Molesworth\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molesworth_2)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/89 "2011-11-07T05:05:34Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > There’s the Rugby World Cup, a much bigger deal than the AFL and gridiron cups, but only a minority of countries play, and if I’m reading the chart right, only teams from four countries have ever been champs. Why, that’s only two more countries than baseball’s World Series! C’mon, say it with me: Arrow-gant. The nerve to call it a _World_ Cup when China, India, and, uh, about a hundred fifty other countries have never played in it. Any country can attempt to qualify for the World Cup proper. If, say, Equatorial Guinea wanted to compete in the World Cup Finals they could enter the African qualifying tournament. Vatican City could enter the European qualifying section if they so desired. On the other hand, if Bhutan attempted to enter a team in the NFL their application would be unlikely to succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/90 "2011-11-07T06:01:46Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > There’s the Rugby World Cup, a much bigger deal than the AFL and gridiron cups, but only a minority of countries play, and if I’m reading the chart right, only teams from four countries have ever been champs. Why, that’s only two more countries than baseball’s World Series! C’mon, say it with me: Arrow-gant. The nerve to call it a _World_ Cup when China, India, and, uh, about a hundred fifty other countries have never played in it. Well there have only been 7 rugby world cups, so give them time. In the last one, the finalist France almost beat NZ but almost lost to Japan, so it’s a lot closer than you think. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/91 "2011-11-07T06:23:56Z")
> [@Molesworth\_2](#): > > On the other hand, if Bhutan attempted to enter a team in the NFL their application would be unlikely to succeed. If they paid enough money, you might be surprised. Remember that this is a league with no team in the second largest city in the United States, but they do have a team in Jacksonville because somebody was willing to pay them enough to put it there. The mechanics of “world champion” are pointless in the case of the NFL because the sport isn’t popular anywhere else, except Canada, where there is not one sane person who thinks Canada’s league is remotely comparable. While it is true the Super Bowl champion will not go on to play India or Japan or Brazil, it is equally true that the people in those countries aren’t interested in American football and don’t play it. So declaring the Super Bowl champions to be “World Champions” is in a sense true, but is very certainly a hollow victory, since the reason they’re World Champions is that the rest of the world doesn’t play the sport. There is no international American football championship because they have no one to play against. The Super Bowl is the highest thing there is. By comparison, declaring the NBA champions to be World Champions is a bit lame because basketball actually is played pretty seriously in the rest of the world, and there are international championships in it. It’s not clear to me why the NBA Championship trumpos the Olympic gold medal or the worlds. The Mavericks probably are still the world’s best professional basketball team, but would be decidedly inferior to a few men’s national teams. Since there is a structure for determining international titles, “World Champion” is a misnomer. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/92 "2011-11-07T07:54:50Z")
> [@Molesworth\_2](#): > > Any country can attempt to qualify for the World Cup proper. > > If, say, Equatorial Guinea wanted to compete in the World Cup Finals they could enter the African qualifying tournament. Vatican City could enter the European qualifying section if they so desired. > > On the other hand, if Bhutan attempted to enter a team in the NFL their application would be unlikely to succeed. I’m not aware of any such barrier to the NFL. As has already been mentioned, an NFL team in Toronto has been rumoured for years ([Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_in_Toronto)). An interesting quote from that link: > [@](#): > > Furthermore, San Diego Chargers executive Dean Spanos, speaking in regards to international NFL play, stated in January 2008 that “the long term goal is globalizing our sport” and that “it is possible that within five or 10 years, the league will have franchises outside the United States.” I’d expect the driver here is money, of course, not a wish to redress perceived arrogance. > [@RickJay](#): > > There is no international American football championship because they have no one to play against. The Super Bowl is the highest thing there is. Actually, there is an [international gridiron championship](http://www.americanfootball2011.com/en/). It, not the Super Bowl, is the first thing Google turns up with search terms “american football world champions”. Sure, Super Bowl is much more famous, so I’m just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/93 "2011-11-07T14:21:10Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Since there’s no possible set of circumstances that will result in our discovering a football team that could compete against the best NFL teams, what’s wrong with the tiny jump from best in the world to world champion? They mean totally different things. The latter means “beat teams from all over the world”. The former means “would beat teams from all over the world”. I have no problem with that one. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/94 "2011-11-07T21:04:34Z")
> [@Molesworth\_2](#): > > I’ve definitely seen the winners of the NFL and NBA titles being called “World Champions”. eg Drew Brees holding up the Super Bowl trophy as the TV announcers waxed lyrical about the way that the New Orleans Saints were now the “World Champions” of American Football. There was a time (as late as the 1970s, IIRC) when the final series of the NBA Playoffs was called the “World Championship Series”. I think the NBA changed it to the “NBA Finals” because FIBA wanted participation from the NBA in its “club” tournaments, and FIBA has its own World Basketball Championship tournament (yes, it existed before NBA players were allowed to play in the Olympics, and, surprisingly enough, USA only won something like two of them in about 40 years, almost certainly because, unlike with the Olympics, NBA owners didn’t want college seniors playing in a “meaningless” tournament and risking their professional careers, so USA never sent any seniors to the world championships). As for the NFL and Major League Baseball, both are tending to get away from the term “world champions” in an “official” usage, but announcers will still use the term, and it does appear in the occasional NFL Films Super Bowl show. In fact, weren’t the first two Super Bowls called the “NFL-AFL World Championship Game” when they were played? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/95 "2011-11-08T00:18:16Z")
I think the objection to the actual usage of “World Champions” is petty and small. There’s much better meat on the “We shocked the world!” bone. They all say it, nonstop, and it drives me up a wall. I remember after the Giants won the Superbowl and Strahan was giving his “We stomped you out” speech (heh) he was saying how the Giants shocked the world. No, Michael, the Giants did not shock the world. The world doesn’t give a flying fuck about American football. On the arrogance meter, “World Champions” is maybe a 2 while “Shocked the world!” is around a 9. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/96 "2011-11-08T00:34:10Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > As for the NFL and Major League Baseball, both are tending to get away from the term “world champions” in an “official” usage, but announcers will still use the term, and it does appear in the occasional NFL Films Super Bowl show. In fact, weren’t the first two Super Bowls called the “NFL-AFL World Championship Game” when they were played? My guess is that to the extent that they aren’t using them officially, it’s because they can’t have proprietary rights over the term “world champions,” but they have no problem with unofficial use because it improves the reputation of their product. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/97 "2011-11-08T00:37:52Z")
I find objections to American (and in some circumstances, Canadian) pro sports teams’ use of the term “World Champions” irrelevant, which is no surprise, because I think the same thing about the World Cup, the Tour de France, the Olympics, the Bundesliga, Sumo wresting etc. etc. etc. If non-Americans find that arrogant of me, I can live with that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JessMagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c0e974/32.png) [@JessMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JessMagic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/98 "2011-11-08T01:46:07Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I said they “could be”, as the competition involves all levels of English football all the way from the amateurs up to the huge Premiership teams. It is the only competition that does so. > > I didn’t, however, say that they are referred to as the “Champions of England”. Which was kind of my point, they were the FA Cup Champions as the FA Cup was the competition they won. OK, I may have misunderstood you. I take your point about the FA Cup. I think in general though, the team that wins the Premier League tends to be the best team in the country. They play 38 games against the 19 other top-flight teams. A team gets into the top-flight by winning successive promotions through the pyramid system. And, okay, over ten years the players who make up that team will come and go. But football clubs are about more than just eleven guys. You need a good infrastructure. Coaches, managers, support staff all tend to hang around for longer than players. I know the question isn’t “what’s the best team in the country?” I’m not belittling Coventry City’s achievement in 1987 - the FA Cup has, and still has, huge prestige, and winning it is a big deal. But it’s a knockout competition. A lot depends on who you get drawn against. All you have to do is win seven / eight / nine games. If it were possible for teams to play a game of football every day, you could put all the teams who compete in the FA Cup into a massive league and have them play each other twice, home and away, over the duration of a season. That would return a team that is definitely “champions of England”. This isn’t possible though. The Premier League is the best you’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/99 "2011-11-08T19:44:43Z")
The OP is no doubt similarly enraged at the coffee place down the street that claims they have the World’s Best Cinnamon Rolls. There has not been an impartially-judged Cinnamon Roll contest, therefore those people are arrogant lying bastards. And let’s not even discuss “Mattress World,” which is in fact only a piddling few hundred square feet, and **not** an entire planet covered with mattresses. Similarly,\*\* Ellis \*\*is presumably annoyed when people say “the whole world knows” to describe things obviously not known to remote tribes in Africa. But why stop there: people say “we’re worlds apart,” describe terrestrially-located things as “out of this world,” say they’re “on top of the world,” or say “all the time in the world.” People talk about “worlds of fun” or “a world of hurt,” despite not having actually changed the condition of the entire planet. It’s as if people use the word “world” as a colloquial idiomatic term used as a generic intensifier! Everyone knows that’s not allowed. Really, though, the ultimate indication of American arrogance is that song they played when Washington defeated the British, “The World Turned Upside Down.” as if a stupid war changed the Earth’s polarity! Sheesh, if you’re going to be that arrogant, you might as well claim that your head of state is put in place by [God almighty](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Style_of_the_British_sovereign)! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874/100 "2011-11-08T19:47:12Z")
Not sure about Ellis and the OP, but your snide and inaccurate analogies are annoying, all right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-american-sports-fans-call-their-champion-teams-world-champions/601874.md?page=6)