Why do American sports fans call their champion teams "World Champions"?

[Irishman]

@That_Don_Guy

There was a time (as late as the 1970s, IIRC) when the final series of the NBA Playoffs was called the “World Championship Series”. I think the NBA changed it to the “NBA Finals” because FIBA wanted participation from the NBA in its “club” tournaments, and FIBA has its own World Basketball Championship tournament (yes, it existed before NBA players were allowed to play in the Olympics, and, surprisingly enough, USA only won something like two of them in about 40 years, almost certainly because, unlike with the Olympics, NBA owners didn’t want college seniors playing in a “meaningless” tournament and risking their professional careers, so USA never sent any seniors to the world championships).

Why would the NBA have had a say in what college seniors do? Wouldn’t that be under the purview of the NCAA?

[amanset]

@JessMagic

OK, I may have misunderstood you. I take your point about the FA Cup. I think in general though, the team that wins the Premier League tends to be the best team in the country. They play 38 games against the 19 other top-flight teams. A team gets into the top-flight by winning successive promotions through the pyramid system. And, okay, over ten years the players who make up that team will come and go. But football clubs are about more than just eleven guys. You need a good infrastructure. Coaches, managers, support staff all tend to hang around for longer than players.

I know the question isn’t “what’s the best team in the country?” I’m not belittling Coventry City’s achievement in 1987 - the FA Cup has, and still has, huge prestige, and winning it is a big deal. But it’s a knockout competition. A lot depends on who you get drawn against. All you have to do is win seven / eight / nine games.

If it were possible for teams to play a game of football every day, you could put all the teams who compete in the FA Cup into a massive league and have them play each other twice, home and away, over the duration of a season. That would return a team that is definitely “champions of England”. This isn’t possible though. The Premier League is the best you’ve got.

I agree entirely and there was no belittling going on. I fully accept that it was a bit of luck, a bit of inspiration and a lot of the nature of knockout tournaments. Coventry’s performance in the league (tenth) that year showed that same.

I was just trying to say that “knowing” a team would beat another one is meaningless. I “knew” that Liverpool and Man Utd would beat us. They were far superior teams. Yet due to the nature of the tournament Coventry never came across them and ended up winning the thing. Champions even though I “knew” they were not the best team. That’s the nature of competition.

I think the idea of someone deciding it was OK to declare themselves “World Champions” because they “know” that no one else can beat them, without ever putting it to the test, rubbed me up the wrong way. And yes, that view is arrogant. And yes, before a mod jumps on me, I know that not everyone in that part of the world thinks that way but it is evident from this thread there are some that do and arrogant is one of many words I’d use to describe the attitude.

[amanset]

@furt

The OP is no doubt similarly enraged at the coffee place down the street that claims they have the World’s Best Cinnamon Rolls. There has not been an impartially-judged Cinnamon Roll contest, therefore those people are arrogant lying bastards. And let’s not even discuss “Mattress World,” which is in fact only a piddling few hundred square feet, and not an entire planet covered with mattresses.

Sports generally have mechanisms for teams to play against each other to discover which is the best. This mechanism can then be extended to find out who is the best in the region. That mechanism can even be extended to the world to find out a world champion!

Restaurants generally don’t have such a mechanism.

(Even then, as I posted earlier, I personally have issues with any sport that involves judges deciding winners as it all comes down to opinion and interpretation rather than clear goals. For example I don’t think figure skating should be an Olympic sport. Ir that gymnastics thing which is basically dancing. Food competitions, such as “World’s Best Cinnamon Rolls”, would have the same issue.)

[furt]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Not sure about Ellis and the OP, but your snide and inaccurate analogies are annoying, all right.

This is the SDMB. Let him who is without snide cast the first stone.

[kidchameleon]

@furt

This is the SDMB. Let him who is without snide cast the first stone.

Lets not bring up curling.

[Molesworth_2]

@furt

The OP is no doubt similarly enraged at the coffee place down the street that claims they have the World’s Best Cinnamon Rolls. There has not been an impartially-judged Cinnamon Roll contest, therefore those people are arrogant lying bastards. And let’s not even discuss “Mattress World,” which is in fact only a piddling few hundred square feet, and not an entire planet covered with mattresses.

OP here.

With all due respect, there are sports in which teams play for actual World Championships. You seem to think that calling oneself “World Champion” is akin to taking a “World’s Greatest Dad” coffee mug to work. I’d beg to differ.

I’m not “enraged” at all. I just find it rather quaint that the Green Bay Packers, despite not even having beaten the CFL champions, get labelled by the US media as “World Champions” when 95% of the world’s population quite literally could not care less.

[Wolverine]

What is wrong with being arrogant? I thought that was part of the fun of sports.

“My team is number one!” (in penalties)
“Your team sucks!” (I mean they beat my team, but they were poor sports.)
“My favorite player would beat your favorite player.” (If the opponent was sitting down with hands tied behind the back.)
“My team is the World Champions!” (even though they play a national contest and pretend that no one else in the world plays)

Maybe it’s because I’m a Michigan Wolverine fan. We know we’re arrogant and don’t care. I mean when you cheer for the winningest college football program of all time, you know your team is better than others.

[amanset]

@Wolverine

What is wrong with being arrogant? I thought that was part of the fun of sports.

“My team is number one!” (in penalties)
“Your team sucks!” (I mean they beat my team, but they were poor sports.)
“My favorite player would beat your favorite player.” (If the opponent was sitting down with hands tied behind the back.)
“My team is the World Champions!” (even though they play a national contest and pretend that no one else in the world plays)

Maybe it’s because I’m a Michigan Wolverine fan. We know we’re arrogant and don’t care. I mean when you cheer for the winningest college football program of all time, you know your team is better than others.

All of those are examples of arrogance regarding a team. The idea that the winner of, say, the NFL is World Champions is apparently an “our sport versus the world” thing. Personally I find that different. The thread is “Why do American sports fans call their champion teams “World Champions”?” That isn’t a “my team vs your team” thing.

[Acsenray]

@amanset

The thread is “Why do American sports fans call their champion teams “World Champions”?” That isn’t a “my team vs your team” thing.

But from the perspective of an American sports fan, that’s exactly what it is – “My team is the greatest in the world!” is nothing more than something more superlative than “my team is the greatest in the league.” Every once in a while you see someone say “greatest in the universe!” It’s no different. It’s merely hyperbole.

[amanset]

@Acsenray

But from the perspective of an American sports fan, that’s exactly what it is – “My team is the greatest in the world!” is nothing more than something more superlative than “my team is the greatest in the league.” Every once in a while you see someone say “greatest in the universe!” It’s no different. It’s merely hyperbole.

Which is how we get back to the question of why fans in other countries that have popular sports with limited international scope don’t do the same thing. What sets those that do act like that in North America apart from those that don’t and those in other countries? (Remember the examples of Gaelic football and Aussie Rules mentioned earlier).

[RickJay]

@Molesworth_2

OP here.

With all due respect, there are sports in which teams play for actual World Championships. You seem to think that calling oneself “World Champion” is akin to taking a “World’s Greatest Dad” coffee mug to work. I’d beg to differ.

I’m not “enraged” at all. I just find it rather quaint that the Green Bay Packers, despite not even having beaten the CFL champions, get labelled by the US media as “World Champions” when 95% of the world’s population quite literally could not care less.

Well, let’s take the example of not playing the CFL champions and just ask ourselves what we’re expecting there.

Does a team have to play absolutely every other team in their sport to be considered the best? The Packers didn’t play the CFL champions. But, hell, they also didn’t play the Arena Football League champions. They didn’t play whatever college was appointed the NCAA champions. They didn’t play the best high school team in Texas. They played no games against amateur football and semipro leagues. Does that mean we can’t even say that the Packers were the best team in the United States?

If the Packers were to play the CFL champions - Montreal, BTW - they would have won by seventy points, if they’d bothered to try their hardest. There’s a reasonable limit to the number of people you can open up a competition to. Mike Tyson never fought me during his reign as World Heavyweight Champion, but that doesn’t mean his title was sullied by failing to face me or the billions of other people who didn’t take a swing at him.

Nor is the St. Louis Cardinals’ victory sullied by the fact that they didn’t play my slo-pitch team. Now, you might reasonably argue that the Cardinals’ claim to world supremacy is doubtful, as it is entirely possible, though unlikely, that the NPB (Japanse League) champion could beat them. They’d certainly give them a run for their money. But with the NFL there is simply no doubt whatsoever that no other football organization is even remotely comparable.

Again, though, the rest of the world just doesn’t care anyway. Football is an American sport with some Canadian participation.

[BigT]

I don’t see why this is so hard to understand. If a tournament consists of all the teams of that sport in the world, then the team that wins that tournament is the best team in the world. It’s irrelevant that there are no teams from other countries.

And it’s irrelevant that there’s no way for other teams to challenge, because there clearly IS. All you have to do is play the same game, and then make a claim you are better than the team that claims world championship status. Make a challenge, and the game will happen, as it clearly would make a lot of money. The fact that it doesn’t happen is a pretty good indication that no one thinks they can beat our teams at the same sport. We’re always open to being defeated. Put up or shut up.

The only one that is arrogant is Baseball–and we’ve already explained that it is a historical title, which previously was accurate. And when the Japanese decide they can beat us, I am sure an exhibition game will be set up. Again why wouldn’t you?

Further insistence that it is arrogant smacks of selectively changing the definition of “world champion” to fit a preconceived notion that Americans are arrogant. World champion means the best in that sport in the world. It has nothing to do with what teams play in it.

[Acsenray]

Yeah, there’s nothing necessary to the definition of “world” that requires there to be clubs “originating in more than one country,” much less that the teams participating must actually represent countries (which is an argument I’ve read often in these kinds of threads). Comiskey Park and Wrigley Field are both in “the world,” so I don’t see why a game between the White Sox and the Cubs could not, by definition, determine a world champion.

[Yoden_warrior]

Many Americans are unaware of the rest of the world - many foreigners would like to be unaware of Americans. Their arrogance is often unbelievable - I have to live here in America and the self-centered arrogance is sometimes breathtaking. I enjoy NFL and baseball (NBA sucks) but I can’t call the Packers or St Louis ‘world’ champions - it’s ridiculous. The original questioner was absolutely right - Geelong are AFL champions, and that’s where it ends!

[jz78817]

@Yoden_warrior

Many Americans are unaware of the rest of the world - many foreigners would like to be unaware of Americans. Their arrogance is often unbelievable - I have to live here in America and the self-centered arrogance is sometimes breathtaking. I enjoy NFL and baseball (NBA sucks) but I can’t call the Packers or St Louis ‘world’ champions - it’s ridiculous. The original questioner was absolutely right - Geelong are AFL champions, and that’s where it ends!

almost everyone is blind to their own culture’s form(s) of arrogance.

[RickJay]

@Yoden_warrior

Many Americans are unaware of the rest of the world - many foreigners would like to be unaware of Americans. Their arrogance is often unbelievable - I have to live here in America and the self-centered arrogance is sometimes breathtaking. I enjoy NFL and baseball (NBA sucks) but I can’t call the Packers or St Louis ‘world’ champions - it’s ridiculous. The original questioner was absolutely right - Geelong are AFL champions, and that’s where it ends!

[MODERATING]
Yoden, as you are new here I will assume you are unfamiliar with the rules of the board, but one of the rules is that moderator instructions are to be followed without exception. Specific instruction was given in this thread to NOT engage in attacks on people’s nationalities and similar nonsense.

You are responsible as a poster on the SDMB to read a thread before you reply to it so as to be aware of such instruction.

Do not do this again. I will not issue a formal warning here but I suggest you familiarize yourself with this board’s rules. There aren’t that many but we’re serious about them.

Oh, and I’m closing the thread.

RickJay
Moderator