# Why do Americans dislike France?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [December 9, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327 "2008-12-09T00:25:56Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/21 "2008-12-09T02:11:46Z")
My french office mate at my last duty station (that I only left a month ago) asked me that once. I didn’t really know, and this thread was obviously not here then. He did however tell me that he enjoyed working with all of the Americans he met. We got alonf and worked well together. He gave me a nice bottle of french wine when I PCS’d. I drank it with him and some other friends at my going away party.
There were also 2 french officers I got to know well. One was, I shit you not, a Duke from some little french town. His family owned a small castle but it was used as a tourist attraction. He told me its not like he was rich or had any royal power or anything. The other guy was really friendly, also. When he moved into his place he and his wife lacked a few things they needed at first. My wife and I loaned them stuff (pots, pans, an extra coffee maker we had, etc). He really wanted some curtains for his patio door and my wife worked in the housing office and manafged to get them for him. A small gesture, tio be sure, but he was so grateful that for my entire tour there he’d stop me to tell me how he thought my wife and I were the best and how Americans are very nice people and get a bad rep etc.
Since most people in the US have probably never met a french person or been to france a lot of the dislike comes from rumors. I’ve been to France several times and for the most part the people were great. sure I met a few assholes, but no more than I’d meet in any US city. I think part of any American hate towards france is due to maybe being a little jealous of the culture. I’m not saying it should be that way, but its just my impression.
Remember when people were pouring out french wine and calling French fries “freedom fries”? I was ashamed, As americans we were collectively being assholes. (personally, not me, I thought it was asinine)
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/22 "2008-12-09T02:25:29Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#):
>
> There is some truth to that but France has its own problems as well and some of the perceptions are legitimate. France made many of the same mistakes as the U.S. in “warehousing” their minority groups in high-rise buildings well out of the city proper yet the U.S. has started to remedy those mistakes yet France still lives with them. Warehousing minority groups has been shown to cause all kinds of problems in the short and long term yet France is well behind the U.S. in fixing this. The only real fix is to assimilate everyone which the U.S. is outstanding at and France is not as good.
Astonishing how fast the defensiveness pops up at even the suggestion that the US may not be superior in some way. It’s illustrative of the point I was making. At any rate, this may be true, but it’s irrelevant to the OP. The average American doesn’t dislike France because its public housing policy falls short in some areas.
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### Author:  [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/23 "2008-12-09T02:27:23Z")
we’re jealous of their freedoms.
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### Author:  [@SharkB8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SharkB8)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/24 "2008-12-09T02:32:41Z")
French? Don’t you mean the Freedomese?
ETA: Because our pop culture tells us to? I can think of at least 4 different Simpsons references in which the French were the punch line. A lot of USA-made international comedies make fun of the French and have the stereotypical Frenchman or woman as character to be laughed at.
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### Author:  [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/25 "2008-12-09T02:46:18Z")
Because the Dutch would be too easy of a target?
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### Author:  [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/26 "2008-12-09T02:51:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> With that said, there is a certain element of French pride that comes off as somewhat snobbish with institutions such as the Minister of Culture. It’s hard not to snicker a little when attempts are made to ban words like “email”. [Viva la courriel](http://www.podcastingnews.com/2008/03/24/french-ban-rename-podcasting/).😉
“Ban”? :dubious: Every language evolves through usage. As far as I know, “courriel”, “courrier électronique” and “e-mail” are currently fighting for the upper hand as the French word for “electronic mail” (in my dialect of French anyway, which isn’t France French). We’ll see what word wins, but it seems to me that you’re asking why the French don’t speak English.
“Courriel” is masculine, by the way. 😛
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/27 "2008-12-09T02:55:15Z")
I think it’s those little hats they wear.
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/28 "2008-12-09T02:57:31Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#):
>
> Careful, someone might accuse us of that after Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. . . !
Well, we are one. No one said a “_successful_ global military player”, though. 🙂
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### Author:  [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/29 "2008-12-09T03:00:57Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#):
>
> I think it’s the withdrawl from NATO in the 1960s and the expulsion of US bases there that did it. Also their refusal to accept the Coca-Colanisation of France and the French way of life (though its happened anyway for the younger generation)
> I don’t see anything good-natured about it at all, unlike American casts at the British.
I think that this is a big part of it. France has always been resistant to the idea of American (cultural, economic, and political) leadership and I think that we resent that. They’ve been a thorn in the side of American policymakers for decades. This is made all the worse because we feel that they owe us.
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### Author:  [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/30 "2008-12-09T03:01:27Z")
How about the fact that they have no shame in trafficking arms to shady characters around the world? It was an exocet missile that sank the Sheffield, as I recall.
Oh, and they are smelly douches, that think they can tell everyone where to get off.
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### Author:  [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/31 "2008-12-09T03:06:09Z")
How about their stubborn refusal to give up their colonies after WWII, reinstituting a brutal colonial regime in Indochina, and holding the door open for us so we could mire ourselves in the quagmire that was Vietnam.
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### Author:  [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/32 "2008-12-09T03:07:10Z")
> [@cckerberos](#):
>
> I think that this is a big part of it. France has always been resistant to the idea of American (cultural, economic, and political) leadership and I think that we resent that. They’ve been a thorn in the side of American policymakers for decades. This is made all the worse because we feel that they owe us.
More like a tiny, barely noticeable splinter that pretends it’s a thorn.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/33 "2008-12-09T03:10:04Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#):
>
> How about the fact that they have no shame in trafficking arms to shady characters around the world? It was an exocet missile that sank the Sheffield, as I recall.
>
> Oh, and they are smelly douches, that think they can tell everyone where to get off.
You’re making an ironic statement, right, saying that these two qualities apply to the US and France?
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/34 "2008-12-09T03:13:20Z")
Forty years ago I spent a summer in France.
They didn’t like Americans, either.
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### Author:  [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/35 "2008-12-09T03:21:41Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> Forty years ago I spent a summer in France.
>
> They didn’t like Americans, either.
That’s another thing. It’s not like Europe is humbly standing with its arms outstretched, waiting to give the big mean Americans a hug. They all hate one another and they all hate us, except the “hate” isn’t this festering rage that threatens to dissolve all bonds of brotherhood and solidarity between us, it’s just recreational hate. Like the kind of hate sports fans have for Boston and New York.
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/36 "2008-12-09T03:30:03Z")
Looking back, this would probably have been a better GD question. I was more wondering if there was a specific point where anti-French feeling really started to kick in-after WWII? The mods can feel free to move it to GD if they feel it fits in better there, though.
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/37 "2008-12-09T03:45:48Z")
As someone who likes to make “Frenchie” jokes I think the dislike is mostly good-natured. I certainly don’t have any animosity towards the French. Some of it might be that both countries are slightly arrogant and detest it in the other. We each feel superior.
Besides, it’s easy making Frenchie jokes. 😉 Most of you probably know this, but go to Google, type in “french military victories” and hit “I’m feeling lucky”. You’ll thank me later (unless you’re French, that is.)
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### Author:  [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/38 "2008-12-09T03:58:52Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#):
>
> How about their stubborn refusal to give up their colonies after WWII, reinstituting a brutal colonial regime in Indochina, and holding the door open for us so we could mire ourselves in the quagmire that was Vietnam.
France forced America into Indochina? This is just ridiculous. It seems to me more like the French had their asses handed to them there and America played macho and said to themselves “we’ll teach the French how these things are done”. And then got their own asses handed to them.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread and all that.
It seems to me America after WWII expected France to fall into the “lapdog” category together with Britain and it does not forgive that France would rather have some independence even while being on friendly terms with the USA. The USA does not want a friend but a servant. So when France decides to have its own force de frappe or its own foreign policy that is something America cannot forgive. The whole freedom fries thing was so embarrassing but that was what passed for foreign policy with Bush. That and installing a brutal colonial regime in Iraq.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/39 "2008-12-09T04:00:16Z")
I remember mom saying awful things about [Charles de Gaulle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Gaulle) back in the early 60’s. He was barely one step up on Nikita Khrushchev.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/40 "2008-12-09T04:32:39Z")
Most Americans don’t give a rat’s ass about the French. Among those who do, probably at least half have positive feelings, at least about wine and French babes.
As to those who harbor negative impressions, the reasons include perceived French cultural snootiness, political blocking maneuvers dating back to DeGaulle and the French attack on Greenpeace’s _Rainbow Warrior_, but mostly it’s a response to anti-Americanism.
A lot of this is overplayed in the media, but there’ve been multiple examples of French complaints about their language, food and other institutions supposedly being overrun by those vile Americans (McDonald’s, anyone?). Simply put, there’s a tendency not to like people who’ve expressed their dislike for you.
Again, I think much of this enmity is exaggerated, but it has an effect on some.
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