# Why do Americans dislike France?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [December 9, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327 "2008-12-09T00:25:56Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/61 "2008-12-09T08:16:30Z")
This isn’t really a GQ discussion. I don’t agree with the premise that Americans don’t like the French. There are, of course, some people in both countries that cling to cliched stereotypes.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/62 "2008-12-09T08:31:38Z")
A lot of it comes from the attitudes of Parisians. Most tourist go to see Paris. Parisians are arrogant fucks. Everyone I have met from France agrees. They all hate Parisians too.
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### Author:  [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/63 "2008-12-09T08:47:37Z")
It’s the hairy armpits on frog women.
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/64 "2008-12-09T09:08:37Z")
> [@SharkB8](#):
>
> ETA: Because our pop culture tells us to? I can think of at least 4 different Simpsons references in which the French were the punch line. A lot of USA-made international comedies make fun of the French and have the stereotypical Frenchman or woman as character to be laughed at.
Simpsons gags are a good measure of how much something has spread into popular culture - and to a lesser extent how much they’ll play to a not-inconsiderable international audience. They don’t dictate it, though.
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### Author:  [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/65 "2008-12-09T09:40:15Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> One other thing- has anybody here actually eaten at a restaurant that renamed its dishes “freedom fries” or “freedom toast”? I haven’t, and I live in Texas, for crying out loud. I never once saw an actual restaurant using those terms.
>
> It just didn’t happen. Not on any kind of wide scale, anyway.
>
> The widely publicized “boycotts” of France amounted to almost nothing. Yes, American tourism to France plummeted, but that probably had more to do with exchange rates and the dollar’s shrinking value than it did with boycotts.
>
> Did anyone in the US stop buying Michelin tires? Did anyone stop eating Dannon yogurt? Any US-based airlines stop buying planes from Airbus?
>
> Of COURSE not. The “boycott” was a joke, and the few people using words like “Freedom Fries” got infinitely more publicity and attention than they warranted.
It happened. And it was childish and shameful.
> [@](#):
>
> [BBC NEWS | Americas | US Congress opts for "freedom fries"](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2842493.stm) - 12 March, 2003
>
> French fries in the House of Representatives’ cafeterias will now be known as “freedom fries” as part of a Republican protest at France’s opposition to a war on Iraq.
> Republican representative Bob Ney, whose committee is in charge of the eateries, said the action was “a small but symbolic effort to show the strong displeasure of many on Capitol Hill with the actions of our so-called ally, France”.
>
> French toast from now on will be known as “freedom toast”.
>
> The move - following the lead of a North Carolina restaurant - reflects the anti-French sentiment among some lawmakers who feel President Jacques Chirac is betraying the US by opposing its policy on disarming Iraq.
> [@](#):
>
> [French fries protester regrets war jibe | World news | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/may/25/usa.jamiewilson1) - May 25 2005
>
> It was a culinary rebuke that echoed around the world, heightening the sense of tension between Washington and Paris in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. But now the US politician who led the campaign to change the name of french fries to “freedom fries” has turned against the war.
> Walter Jones, the Republican congressman for North Carolina who was also the brains behind french toast becoming freedom toast in Capitol Hill restaurants, told a local newspaper the US went to war “with no justification”.
>
> Mr Jones, who in March 2003 circulated a letter demanding that the three cafeterias in the House of Representatives’ office buildings ban the word french from menus, said it was meant as a “light-hearted gesture”.
>
> But the name change, still in force, made headlines around the world, both for what it said about US-French relations and its pettiness.
>
> Now Mr Jones appears to agree. Asked by a reporter for the North Carolina News and Observer about the name-change campaign - an idea Mr Jones said at the time came to him by a combination of God’s hand and a constituent’s request - he replied: “I wish it had never happened.”
>
> Although he voted for the war, he has since become one of its most vociferous opponents on Capitol Hill, where the hallway outside his office is lined with photographs of the “faces of the fallen”.
> [@](#):
>
> [BBC NEWS | Americas | 'Freedom fries' lawmaker's U-turn](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4086380.stm) - 13 June, 2005
>
> A pro-Iraq war US congressman who campaigned for French fries to be renamed “freedom fries” is now calling for US troops to return home from Iraq.
> Republican Representative Walter Jones is to introduce legislation demanding a timetable for the withdrawal.
>
> The renaming of fries in Capitol Hill’s cafeterias in March 2003 expressed disapproval among some US lawmakers with France’s opposition to the war.
>
> French toast was also re-branded “freedom toast”.
>
> “I voted for the resolution to commit the troops, and I feel that we’ve done about as much as we can do,” Mr Jones said on US network ABC.
>
> “I just feel that the reason of going in for weapons of mass destruction, the ability of the Iraqis to make a nuclear weapon, that’s all been proven that it was never there.”
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/66 "2008-12-09T11:16:38Z")
Since there probably isn’t a single factual answer, let’s move all the opinions to IMHO.
**samclem** Moderator, General Questions
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### Author:  [@miamouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miamouse)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/67 "2008-12-09T11:20:00Z")
It’s one of those things where the vocal few make people think it’s a majority when in reality most people are indifferent to anyone’s nationality.
I think it’s just that they’re ‘unknown’. Growing up and living in NY, which is typically diverse, I have met either as classmates, coworkers, or through friends: Russians, Portugese, Hungarians, English, Israeli, German, Swiss, Italian, Irish, Scottish, South African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, Philipino, Canadian, Dutch, and people from most carribean and central american countries. I have not ever met someone who lived here from France. They are unknown and easy targets for those that need an easy target.
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### Author:  [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/68 "2008-12-09T11:42:28Z")
> [@jovan](#):
>
> Can you give some examples? I can’t think of any.
>
> I frequently see people base their perceptions on mistaken beliefs or general misunderstanding. For instance, even on these boards, around the start of the Iraq war, there were some claiming that France “frequently” used its veto against the US in the security council. In fact, France only used its veto unilaterally once, a long time ago, on an issue that affected it directly. Every other time, it used it alongside the US and/or the UK but you never hear people complaining about the UK vetoing the US “out of spite”.
[An interesting BBC article from 2003 on the subject](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2828985.stm)
France has only used its veto unilaterally twice: once in 1947, and once in 1976. The US has done so 54 times.
I, too, would like to hear some examples **astorian**. So far, the main reason seems to be “they think they’re as good as us!”
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/69 "2008-12-09T12:12:51Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> A lot of it comes from the attitudes of Parisians. Most tourist go to see Paris. Parisians are arrogant fucks. Everyone I have met from France agrees. They all hate Parisians too.
It should be a rule that every American who visits Paris must first visit New York City so that they don’t become confused about what rudeness really is.
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### Author:  [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/70 "2008-12-09T12:33:10Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> On top of everything else, French wine is over-priced, over-hyped plonk. California, Australia, Chile, Spain, Italy, Argentina, New Zealand, hell even South Africa make better wine.
Ahem… _even_ South Africa??? :dubious:
Grim
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### Author:  [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/71 "2008-12-09T13:06:57Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#):
>
> How about the fact that they have no shame in trafficking arms to shady characters around the world? It was an exocet missile that sank the Sheffield, as I recall.
I wish we were doing the same, rather than refusing to sell to so many places that the cost of procurement programs then goes through the roof because the quantities we buy are so small.
We cut off spare parts supply to Israel, and Jordan, when war threatened, and to India when war threatened with Pakistan. Not surprisingly neither bought anything from us again.
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### Author:  [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/72 "2008-12-09T13:07:18Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#):
>
> It should be a rule that every American who visits Paris must first visit New York City so that they don’t become confused about what rudeness really is.
I remember reading an article probably about 10 years ago about Americans traveling to Paris and being shocked by the rudeness of the locals.
I remember thinking the same thing as you though, the American family they were writing about was not from a big city themselves and most of what dismayed them in Paris was simple urban impersonality such as you might encounter in Boston, NYC or many other large American cities.
The Parisians didn’t come across as rude so much as busy and jaded.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/73 "2008-12-09T13:52:30Z")
> [@brujaja](#):
>
> Personally, I like pretty much everything about the French, including the Arab associations, car-burning, Socialism, & slacking; except that the actual French people from France that I have met myself here in California have all been somewhat argumentative or, you know, testy.
>
> And they _won’t_ say, _“Zut alors!”_
I HATE it when foreigners don’t talk like they’re supposed to. I knew an Irishman over here who was fun to piss off by saying “Top o’ the mornin’” to him. He’d go ballistic and usually launch into a diatribe about how the Irish never say that. Always good for a grin.
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### Author:  [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/74 "2008-12-09T14:47:43Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> I HATE it when foreigners don’t talk like they’re supposed to. I knew an Irishman over here who was fun to piss off by saying “Top o’ the mornin’” to him. He’d go ballistic and usually launch into a diatribe about how the Irish never say that. Always good for a grin.
I wonder what are some stereotypically American expressions that foreigners make fun of us for?
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/75 "2008-12-09T14:50:59Z")
> [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](#):
>
> I wonder what are some stereotypically American expressions that foreigners make fun of us for?
Make fun of US? Why on Earth would anyone do that? 😕
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/76 "2008-12-09T15:10:30Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> How about this: The US and France frequently hate each other because they BOTH regard themselves as having a divine mission to share their culture and civilization with the rest of the world… whether the rest of the world wants it or not.
This may be as close as we get to a “correct” answer.
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### Author:  [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/77 "2008-12-09T16:00:48Z")
Those Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys? Way back in the day, (1986) France did not allow the USAF F-117 bombers (despite the “F” designation) taking off from England to overfly their country on the way to Triploi to blow Khadaffi’s butt up, adding long hours and additional airborn refuelers to the mission. Spain also refused overflights, but it’s more fun to hate the French.
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### Author:  [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/78 "2008-12-09T17:21:34Z")
I imagine it didn’t help that Michael Moore pointed out that France seemed to have quite a good socialised healthcare system. That’s apparently pure evil.
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### Author:  [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/79 "2008-12-09T17:29:11Z")
> [@Lobsang](#):
>
> I imagine it didn’t help that Michael Moore pointed out that France seemed to have quite a good socialised healthcare system. That’s apparently pure evil.
I don’t think that movie really caused much of a stir over here. I never heard anyone IRL talking about it while it was out.
Anyway this France hatred thing goes back much further I think.
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### Author:  [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-dislike-france/476327/80 "2008-12-09T17:32:42Z")
You yanks don’t hate the French. You just are a bit miffed with them.
We English are the ones who REALLY hate the French and have done for 1,000 years. You are mere beginners.
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