# Why do Americans have aristocratic names? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 11, 2007, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651 "2007-05-11T04:37:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/21 "2007-05-11T15:43:22Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Can’t say I’ve met many “Baldricks” either, now that I think about it. [/QUOTE] Well, to be fair, his surname was Baldrick. His first name was Sod Off. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/22 "2007-05-11T16:02:57Z")
Americans have a history of very odd names. Check out some of the names around the Civil War, or the Revolutionary War. ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/23 "2007-05-11T16:07:46Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] There’s been a historically sluggish market for names like **Peon Serf Menial Villein** for some reason, so they’ve been using names from the upper register, for some reason. [/QUOTE] Dang, that almost makes me sorry my reproductive days are finished. Peon Hall has a ring to it, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/24 "2007-05-11T16:29:01Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Literally, yes, but not everyone got to use it. It implies nobility, and if you used it without the right to, you’d get ostracized (and, for all I know, prosecuted. They used to throw the book at you for wearing clothes above your station, at one point.) [/QUOTE] This, of course, was meant to humilate the illiterate. “I see we have the pleasure of a gentleman in our company! Good sir, wouldst thou favor us with a few lines from _The Pilgrim’s Progress?_ Hmm? Hmm?” ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/25 "2007-05-11T16:48:54Z")
Donald Trump’s latest offspring is named Barron. I can’t help thinking that the aristocratic implication was a factor in choosing this name. Since daddy is often called “the Donald,” it seems likely that the kid will be “the Barron,” which sounds very noble indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/26 "2007-05-11T16:56:00Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] On a related note, isn’t it illegal to have a peerage title as your first name? [/QUOTE] Which country are you talking about? The U.S. government is constitutionally barred from recognizing titles of nobility, so why would the government make such a rule? In point of fact, however, I don’t think there are any federal or state laws in the United States restricting naming. You can use any name you want. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/27 "2007-05-11T17:07:18Z")
[QUOTE=h.sapiens] Well, to be fair, his surname was Baldrick. His first name was Sod Off. 😉 [/QUOTE] One day, I hope to have a little turnip of my own. ---
**Author:** ![Frosted\_Glass](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frosted_glass/32/3926_2.png) [@Frosted\_Glass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frosted_Glass)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/28 "2007-05-11T17:35:09Z")
The only Baron I know is [Baron Davis](http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3326) the basketball player. I thought this was going to be about the whole three-pronged naming tradition that WASPs use. You know like Alexandra Elizabeth Uperton or some other such nonsense (spoken by someone who has the WASP name construction in real life). ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/29 "2007-05-11T17:39:05Z")
[QUOTE=GingerOfTheNorth] One day, I hope to have a little turnip of my own. [/QUOTE] Maybe we can work something out… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/30 "2007-05-11T18:07:30Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] There’s been a historically sluggish market for names like **Peon Serf Menial Villein** for some reason, so they’ve been using names from the upper register, for some reason. [/QUOTE] We have a Charles Lackey working here at AWC. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/31 "2007-05-11T18:14:21Z")
> [@](#): > > We have a Charles Lackey working here at AWC. Yeah, but the point is that you’re a lot less likely to find a Lackey Charles working anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/32 "2007-05-11T19:06:06Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Literally, yes, but not everyone got to use it. It implies nobility, and if you used it without the right to, you’d get ostracized (and, for all I know, prosecuted. They used to throw the book at you for wearing clothes above your station, at one point.) [/QUOTE] It usually does indicate nobility, but there are exceptions going both ways–noble\* families who don’t have the “von” or any other such prefix in their name, and families who do have the “von” but are not noble. Von also means “from” in some contexts, and historically it could mean simply that the family came from a place, like ‘van’ in Dutch. I’m not sure how ‘von’ came to be almost exclusively noble in German; I believe it is a much more reliable indicator of nobility than are corresponding prefixes elsewhere Europe. \*Historically noble, of course. The large German speaking countries do not recognize any official nobility now. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/33 "2007-05-11T19:20:22Z")
> [@](#): > > It usually does indicate nobility, but there are exceptions going both ways–noble\* families who don’t have the “von” or any other such prefix in their name, and families who do have the “von” but are not noble. I suspect this is somerthing that varies from place to place and time to time. I never said that “von” was required to indicate nobility, but I’ve encountered more than one piece of literature that made much of the fact that someone had a “von” in their name – and in those cases both writer and reader understood that this indicated something special. Nowadays, of course, and in the US it doesn’t mean a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/34 "2007-05-11T19:48:08Z")
[QUOTE=pinkfreud] Donald Trump’s latest offspring is named Barron. I can’t help thinking that the aristocratic implication was a factor in choosing this name. [/QUOTE] When I first heard of young Barron, I felt that his name might have been inspired by [a certain financial publication.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barron%27s_Magazine) Perhaps both factors were involved in the selection. Some plantation owners in pre-Civil War America gave their slaves such names as King and Prince, probably out of a sense of irony. Once emancipation came, the newly-freed African-Americans could select names they preferred for their progeny, and “King” fell into disfavor. However, the popularity of the Rev. Martin Luther King, Junior, led a few parents to use his surname as a first name for sons born in the 1950’s or later. The Cleveland Browns drafted defensive back King Simmons in 1986, and I recall reading an article which mentioned his parents’ admiration for, and desire to honor, the civil rights leader. Seton Hall University once had a basketball player whose given name was Sir John Collins. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/35 "2007-05-11T19:48:45Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] I suspect this is somerthing that varies from place to place and time to time. I never said that “von” was required to indicate nobility, but I’ve encountered more than one piece of literature that made much of the fact that someone had a “von” in their name – and in those cases both writer and reader understood that this indicated something special. [/quote] You were correct; I was only pointing out that there are some exceptions. But in years of college German, and majoring in it, and living in the country for a year, I got the impression that ‘von’ does indicate nobility at least 90% of the time. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that on the Continent the lower ranks of the nobility usually included people whose analogues in Britain would be merely knights or even ‘squires’ and the like. Having ‘von’ in your name, even when it did imply noble heritage didn’t mean you were living like the Marquess of Marchmain in _Brideshead Revisited_. ---
**Author:** ![RoniaBorkason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9dc877/32.png) [@RoniaBorkason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoniaBorkason)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/36 "2007-05-11T20:12:26Z")
I have a slightly on topic anecdote! Years ago, my grandparents took a vacation to the USSR. My grandfather’s first name is Don, and the border crossing guards when they entered on the train were very upset that this obvious Spanish nobility, Don Lastname, was trying to sneak into their lovely egalitarian country. Nope, sorry, its Don, a short form of Donald, and American, of Northern European extraction, not Spanish. _Just_ enough education to make trouble, not enough to get out of it. Also, I know of two children, rural and white, named Lady Hifalutin’Firstname NormalLastname, and her younger brother Sir FancifulFirstname NormalLastname. The firstnames were also historical, not LOTR-derived, so I couldn’t tell if it was just geekitude or real weirdness. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/37 "2007-05-11T20:55:26Z")
I have known someone whose actual given name was “Squire.” ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/38 "2007-05-11T21:12:38Z")
I’ve personally known a Prince, a Princess, a Mussiah (pronounced, for those of you who don’t know, Messiah), a Baron and a Noble.\* All Black, as are I. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/39 "2007-05-11T21:32:09Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] I’ve personally known a Prince, a Princess, a Mussiah (pronounced, for those of you who don’t know, Messiah), a Baron and a Noble.\* All Black, as are I. [/QUOTE] My “\*” was for this –\> 😉 I also know severally Roy’s. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651/40 "2007-05-11T22:34:42Z")
There’s also the famous director, [King Vidor](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0896542/). Though nowadays, he sounds like a subtitle from a Chinese _Star Wars_ bootleg. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-americans-have-aristocratic-names/403651.md?page=3)