Heck, I’m in favour of increased Canadian refinery capability, and (if technically and financially feasible) nuclear power plants on site to aid in tar-sand oil extraction.
This is our century, hoser.
This is all simply incoherent horseshit…so, the sooner forgotten the better.
No…it won’t. Nor will most of the jobs go to ‘CANADA’ (it doesn’t help capitalizing it btw). You are missing things like those ‘taxes’ (you might have heard of them…they’ve been in all the papers lately). Also, you are missing the fact that if the oil is sent via pipeline to the US, then the REASON it’s being sent here is to do that ‘refining’ stuff. See, you can’t really use the oil right out of the ground. Can’t just pump it out and pour it into the open maw of your car and drive happily away. That’s the case even if we are talking about light, sweet crude…which this ain’t. Another thing you are overlooking is the fact that the refined fuels and oils don’t magically get from the refineries to your local gas station or auto store. There are whole armies of folks who have to package it, transport it, market it and sell it to you…and this isn’t an exhaustive list here. Most of those people are…wait for it…waaaiiiiittttt foooooorrrr iiiiiiittttt…AMERICAN’S (I decided to copy your clever use of caps here to emphasize the point, and hopefully have it sink in).
Assuming I’m translating your OP into standard English, you seem to be making the same errors that every ‘keep those jobs at home instead of outsourcing them to ferriners!’ type makes…which is to forget that even if a product is made in another country, that doesn’t mean the US as a whole gets zero benefit from it in terms of taxes AND jobs. Of course, my translation of your OP may be wrong, and you may be talking about the sad lack of homework being done by the average American school kid these days, or perhaps a new beer pipeline from CANADA in the handy XL mega-can, which I’m all for (though it would be better if the beer pipeline came in from Ireland, as I’m more a Guinness fan than a CANADIAN beer fan, truth be told).
I don’t think anyone was really confused by your use of the terms ‘black’ and ‘red’ to denote profits. As noted, you were wrong about where the term ‘black Friday’ came from, but that’s no big deal. You might want to spend some time looking over the various other posts in this thread with an eye towards translating the rest of it into English, however…assuming you actually want a discussion.
-XT
I’m a retired grandmother. If my point wasn’t clear let me rephrase.
Where do you personally stand on the Keystone pipeline project? If you’re not sure, do the homework. Don’t assume. Then think about what you’ve learned and see if it makes common sense. (to you)
Picking apart my grammar or formatting is nonproductive. If you care about American issues then do the homework.
I am not against Canada. I’m worried that American citizens will continue to allow their government to enact legislation without holding them accountable for long-term consequences. Do the homework.
I don’t care who is actually buying the properties. But if you read local media (as in North Dakota and South Dakota) you’ll be surprised to find (don’t believe me-do the homework) that the way they are acquiring those properties is a little shady. Enough so, that that acquisition stopped at the Nebraska border. Why? Do the homework. A few weeks later the federal government halted the Keystone project entirely pending further investigation. Again, why? Not just the pat answer, but the real reasons. Do the homework.
Do you want your friends and family members in the military to keep having to go to war over oil? To borrow a quote “don’t believe anything you hear and only half of what you see”. Come on. It’s an election year. Do the homework!
Have you heard of the Derry Bromfield show (radio) or the Common Sense Coalition? Probably not, because they’re primarily aired in rural areas. The people involved actually read the fine print in the legislation our government proposes. When they see something strange, they go on air disecting the pros and cons. But they also prompt you to not just listen blindly to the nightly news. They want you to use your own common sense. To decide whether what the government is doing makes sense to YOU, without fancy words or expensive suits.
Typing in all caps in 2012 is against the norm for computer users. But there were no computers when I was small. Typing a single word or a phrase in all caps meant I was putting an emphsizing that word or phrase. Typing Canada in all caps in my original post meant-- Would you rather spend even a dollar of your own money in a foreign country or put it to better use building the US economy right now?
If you have more comments, bring it on. But you better do your homework first! (chuckle)
PS. “easements” sometimes include mineral and water rights or the option to lease them to a third party. Do your homework.
How’d you manage to retire from that?
Frankly, it’s still not at all clear. Rather than continuing to tell everyone else here to “do the homework” (and stating it seven times in your last post comes across as repetitive, if not condescending), why don’t you actually come out and say what your issue is? You’ve clearly “done the homework”, and seen something you don’t like. Share!
Basically, it’s very expensive and time consuming. Even in the US, there are a ton of hurdles to clear before building a new refinery.
It’s often much cheaper and faster to expand capacity at an existing refinery. Even so, it usually takes, at a minimum, hundreds of millions of dollars and the better part of a decade to significantly expand capacity at an existing refinery.
So, a new refinery might make some long term sense, but it would take at least a decade to build (if not longer) and might never pay for itself or only do so over several decades. Refining margins are pretty bad, and several US oil companies have divested themselves of their refining divisions to drop the dead weight.
Beyond that, once you already have the refinery, you’d still have to install infrastructure to get the now refined products to their ultimate destination (the rest of Canada or the US or abroad). That still means pipelines, if you want to transport any significant quantity. Though, in this case, the pipelines wouldn’t necessarily have to pass all the way across the US.
Is “do the homework” the new code for “purity of essence”? I’m getting a real General Jack D Ripper vibe from the OP. I’m not avoiding women. I’m simply denying them my essence. No more aquifer water for me, no sir. Rain water and pure grain alcohol all the way.
[QUOTE=Schyler]
Where do you personally stand on the Keystone pipeline project? If you’re not sure, do the homework. Don’t assume. Then think about what you’ve learned and see if it makes common sense. (to you)
[/QUOTE]
I’m for it. If that’s the ‘homework’ you are talking about, we’ve had several discussions on this that you can search for if you are interested.
It’s not a nitpick about your grammar…it’s that your OP was pretty much incoherent and didn’t make any sort of sense. If you simply wanted a discussion about the Keystone pipeline project then you should have focused your OP on that, instead of a bunch of incoherent ranting about profits and Big Oil™ and redistribution of $5 to every man woman and child in the US, blah blah blah.
You keep repeating ‘Do the homework’, which is fairly ironic. Leaving aside the irony, however, what point are you trying to make? Instead of continuing to repeat ‘Do the homework’, why not come right out and say what consequences YOU think will transpire if the government allows (or doesn’t allow, or something) the pipeline. What ARE the consequences, from your perspective?
Nope…never heard of the Derry Bromfield show. Instead of going into a long, convoluted digression about why you seemingly like the show, could you simply offer up some of these points you think are important for the discussion? You typed a lot into your post to this point without actually saying anything substantial towards whatever point you are trying to make…assuming you ARE trying to make a point, which is unclear to me. Do you favor the pipeline? Are you opposed? Why or why not? What are the salient reasons you and/or this show you mentioned have for or against, and why is it important? Instead of vague and repeated calls on us to do our homework, could you, perhaps, put some effort into making some debatable points on the subject at hand?
Leaving aside the caps thingy, why do you think that the US spending money on a pipeline ISN’T helping build our economy, and what would be your better use for the money? Do you understand that the oil coming to the US would be unrefined, and that we’d be refining it here, then selling and distributing it throughout the country? And that those jobs would all be done by Americans? Do you understand the purpose of the pipeline, and why investing in it isn’t a one way street of benefits to Canada…in fact, there are actually some negatives FOR Canada in doing this, and that the overwhelming benefit comes down on our own side of the scales? Again, could you, perhaps, actually produce some tangible debate points instead of these vague appeals to emotion that lack any sort of substance?
You are really stuck on this homework thing, and I don’t think you really see the irony in your repeated use of the term. Perhaps you could do some homework and actually produce some tangible points to debate? What IS your stance on this issue and why do you hold it? Vaguely, you seem to be against it, and I’m getting a whiff of anti-trade/anti-outsourcing/anti-offshoring from your statements, but it would be nice if you’d just come out and stake out a position, back it up with something other than repeated mouthings to ‘do our homework’ and appeals to rural radio shows without any attempt to provide details. This is along the lines of 9/11 Truthers saying you have to watch this 2.3 hour YouTube video because all the great points they want to make are in there, and come back and discuss (something) when you’ve watched it.
-XT
I think the OP is trying to insinuate that the process of acquiring rights to build and use the pipeline also entail giving the company rights to the mineral and/or water rights over the land that it uses, and that the company will find a way to get those rights whether by negotiation or by eminent domain, thus forcing Real Americans to give over their mineral and water rights over to a foreign company. Or maybe not, I couldn’t make sense of the posts either. Maybe I should Do My Homework.
I’ve heard about taxes. Funny thing is, that no matter how much the government takes in they keep spending more than they have. It isn’t fixing the economy. IE: I’m not opposed to the pipeline, just would like to see our government start showing due diligence on solving problems first on our soil first, then going forward with projects like the pipeline (after a thorough “long haul” investigation)
Quick fixes seldom work over the long haul.
I personally would like to see the government taking Candy and Soda off the Food Stamp “elgible” list by making them federally taxed like liquor and cigarettes. Before you scream, it would make millions of dollars worth of savings over the long haul simply by enticing recipients of those benefits to make healthier choices. Save lives. Enable better lives. IE: Millions in savings from money NOT spent on medical bills related to diseases like diabetes, heart attack, stroke, not to mention our huge increase in obesity in children. I’m not against Food Stamps or people who receive them.
Tax money from it would be a large plus to the American economy (a quick fix with a long haul bonus) paid for by people who can afford it, who can afford insurance. Who can already afford to eat more healthy.
I’d also like to see our federal computers put to better use detecting fraud in all areas of Government spending. Fraudulent Social Security numbers being used, duplicate numbers, the list goes on and on. IE: a government spending “audit” . Like the IRS uses for taxpayers. So you see, I have heard of taxes.
Yeah, that federal line item for “waste and corruption” is a tough nut to crack.
We’re all still trying to get a SINGLE, COHERENT sentence describing what you think the problem is.
Whatever your politics may be and whether or not you agree with the pipeline, it will certainly create and sustain some American jobs. Not just temporary construction jobs, but, as other posters have noted, permanent jobs at refineries themselves and in transportation of the refined products.
So, again, what precisely are the problems you have with the pipeline?
As a suggestion, please start with a single, coherent sentence summarizing your viewpoint. This can be followed by paragraphs detailing your arguments/research.
Damnit, the OP came back and the thread still tastes like it was a St. Patty’s Day thread.
What is this I don’t even
Here’s homework for Cheesesteak. How much underground water can be contaminated by a one-foot diameter gas or oil spill? My dad owned a gas station. If he spilled even a drop of gas or oil while refilling his tanks he had to have a million dollars worth of insurance to cover clean up costs. Resend the homework you posted for me % of the EPA. (Environmental Protection Agency) It’s not about quantity.
To paraphrase from MIB, this gets about 9.3 on the WeirdShit-O-Meter…
[QUOTE=Schyler]
Here’s homework for Cheesesteak. How much underground water can be contaminated by a one-foot diameter gas or oil spill? My dad owned a gas station. If he spilled even a drop of gas or oil while refilling his tanks he had to have a million dollars worth of insurance to cover clean up costs. Resend the homework you posted for me % of the EPA. (Environmental Protection Agency) It’s not about quantity.
[/QUOTE]
So, is your problem possible contamination of the aquifer (or something), or with the Canadians stealing our water and reselling it to us in bottles…or is it with candy and soda? Or perhaps it’s about Americans eating healthier, perhaps due to the heavy Canadian influence on our current horrible diet? Or maybe it’s about more oil in our diet being better (or worse?) than having candy, soda and porn as part of food stamps? Or are we to eat the food stamps, instead of the candy and soda, to get more fiber? I really can’t follow all the twists and turns of this ‘debate’, since much of it doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the proposed pipeline. There is a lot of homework being asked for, however, but it’s unclear what the homework is really supposed to be on…or who actually needs to do it.
I will say that a nice cheesesteak sandwich, with plenty of grilled onions and some peppers and real, cheddar cheese (none of that cheese-wiz stuff, thanks all the same) would go great right now, perhaps with a cold beer and some oily french…er, freedom…fries. Yeah, it’s not healthy, and probably is on the food stamp programs…
-XT
Damn, now I’m hungry for a well-oiled cheesesteak.
Wow, land shenanigans like this have never happened before!
Well, except all through the latter part of the 19th century when they were building the railroads, but that’s neither here nor there.
Nobody is buying the properties. They are acquiring easements over portions of the properties, just like cable, telecom and power companies.
Don’t incoherent rants belong in the Pit?
I’m afraid I have to agree.
There’s no clear debate here and honestly not enough content to even qualify as any sort of witnessing.
I can’t do the first part of the homework because I don’t have an iPhone.