# Why do atheists insist that atheism is a 'non-belief'?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-atheists-insist-that-atheism-is-a-non-belief/564281>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [December 15, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-atheists-insist-that-atheism-is-a-non-belief/564281 "2010-12-15T20:50:56Z")\
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**Showing post:** 188

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**Author:** ![Galileo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Galileo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-atheists-insist-that-atheism-is-a-non-belief/564281/188 "2010-12-17T02:05:02Z")

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> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#):
>
> Since our continued existence hangs in the balance, don’t you think that belief in the universe-destroying trolls is profoundly important?

Do you think that it is profoundly important? Does anyone?

My point was this: Theists have beliefs, and atheists have beliefs. And those beliefs affect how we address big ideas and big issues.

In another thread, [Most people are agnostic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=571124), you say:

> [@Most people are agnostic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-people-are-agnostic/546977/2):
>
> Atheists \*\*believe \*\*there is no God. That’s not the same as being certain there’s no God.

(Emphasis yours.)

And this:

> [@The Hamster King](#):
>
> Generally when I encounter someone who says they’re agnostic, it’s not a coherent, well-thought-out believe. It’s just someone with strong atheist leaning who doesn’t want to admit it.

(I’m pretty you just made a small mistake in writing “believe” instead of “belief”.)

The implication is that atheism is a coherent, well-thought-out belief.

We agree in principle. 🙂

Also, I found it amusing that, in that same thread, you said:

> [@](#):
>
> And agnostics believe that the question of whether there is a God or not is unanswerable. That’s considerable stronger than just believing it’s unanswered. Furthermore it’s an epistemological claim, not an ontological one.

And, in this thread, I said:

> [@](#):
>
> If some of those theists stop believing in God, there’s little else that they need to explain. Perhaps they are more interested in distancing themselves from religious ideas and customs than they are in the deeper ontological and epistemological issues.

When you brought up universe-destroying trolls, were you making ontological or epistemological claims?

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