# Why do Austrians speak German? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 6, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638 "2016-06-06T03:12:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/41 "2016-06-06T15:00:57Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I looked up the Czech Republic on Wikipedia. According to the numbers there, 64% of Czechs consider themselves ethnically Czech. > > By way of comparison, North Korea is comprised pretty much exclusively of Koreans, speaking Korean. There is a very small number of Chinese and Japanese, but I’d imagine the Czech Republic’s ethnic variety probably beats North Korea’s fifty to one. This figure doesn’t make a lot of sense to me and according to the source (the 2011 Czech census), 26% left this field blank. “Moravian” (4.9%) is probably somewhat, though not totally, contrived. The largest non-Czech ethnic group are the Romani. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/42 "2016-06-06T15:16:55Z")
Shouldn’t they be speaking Australian ? ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/43 "2016-06-06T15:27:10Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > It may be worth noting that Europe has, basically, settled on territorial boundaries that more or less match linguistic boundaries. Austria is the last remaining holdout. But the breakup of Yugoslavia has pushed back in the opposite direction. Before 1990, people in ex-Yugoslavia pretty much spoke a mutually intelligible language. Now, Slovenians and Bosnians and Croatians and Serbians are different countries speaking a common language. It’s called Serbo-Croatian, distinguished largely by the alphabet of choice, similar to Urdu-Hindi of the Indian subcontinent. This is not entirely correct, Slovenia has always had its own language (Slovene) which is different from what used to be called “Serbian-Croatian”. I believe it is more closely related to some other slavic languages even. Macedonia also has its own language. Now there are some differences (some artificially introduced) between Serbian and Croatian, but to say it is two different languages is pushing it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/44 "2016-06-06T15:28:43Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > And it’s not in Germany, I think is the point. Nor do they speak Liecht… Li… well, their own language. Which damn, but it would have one long name! ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/45 "2016-06-06T15:37:37Z")
Austrasia was in what is now France. The german language came from Norse… the language of Norway. See [Germani cisrhenani - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germani_cisrhenani#/media/File:Germanic_expansion.gif) The High in High German just means the high part of the rivers… far away from the coast. Low means the low lands, the ports… Scandanavia, Holland, Belgium. This mimics high and low divisions of river valleys and countries , such as the three Francia… After Charlemagne, the Franks divided their territory into East Francia, Middle Francia , and West Francia. East Francia included land won from the huns and avars… Marchia Orientalis . Austria was essentially defined when it was given to Leopold of Babenberg in 976, and created a duchy to ensure Leopold remained a Duke. The OP asks why it remains separate ? The Habsburgs may have realised it was better to keep the area cleanly defined - in terms of culture, to prevent immigration causing instability … The Hun’s were just over there at Hungary, the Goths and Vandals were being converted to christianity … But they might cause instability in Austria… Look what happens to Ukraine… Crimea… immigrants were permitted… then took it over. Look at how Switzerland came about… the system of treaties that promoted peace and stability …AND prevented disturbing immigration… (Switzerland has 4 official languages - hardly a country based on language !) Also the Habsburgs might have wanted to keep their duchy as a model state, to promote their claim to be HRE… Anyway they never got it clear of Bavaria and Germany and the HRE and other Franks… The Lombards weren’t far away, They didnt want to lose protection from the HRE or the bavarians… they didnt want to become isolated from the rest of the germanic area… The Archduke /Duke inherited lots of land external to the Duchy… Why didn’t they incorporate the inherited territories into the Duchy ? (Like Cornwall was incorporated into England.) 1. Dukes don’t do that. Kings do it… Emperors do it… Austria was always a Duchy. 2. Anyway the Habsburgs could hardly wish to modify the 976 declaration -A modification would say that the powers got it wrong in 976 ! It would be like saying “therefore I shouldn’t be Holy Roman Emperor !”. I guess they were along for the ride when they inherited the external territories… but they knew that it was just easier to let them exist as only nominal possessions… they wouldn’t do anything to destroy the perfection of the 976 declaration of the Duchy of Austria… Why was Austria left alone by Bavaria,Swiss,etc? the huns and slavs weren’t far away… Hungary and Bohemia( now the Czech republic…)… The Austrians managed to deal with THEM… They were created as twins, (Duchies in the HRE)… they could get along … if the plan works, the christians and the HRE did the right thing… if the plan failed, the Austrians failed… The reasons for changing, or not changing, Duchy , state and country borders can be very political… ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/46 "2016-06-06T15:43:29Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Nor do they speak Liecht… Li… well, their own language. Which damn, but it would have one long name! Fun piece of trivia about Liechtenstein: As of April 2014, all (well, almost, I guess) new citizens of Liechtenstein are born outside the country because the only maternity ward in the country was closed. > **[Geburtenabteilung verschwindet im April](https://www.vaterland.li/importe/archiv/politik/geburtenabteilung-verschwindet-im-april-art-85889)** > > Das Ende der Geburtsabteilung am Liechtensteiner Landesspital ist besiegelt. Nachdem die drei Belegärzte der Gynäkologie per Frühjahr gekündigt ... ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/47 "2016-06-06T15:46:58Z")
Heh. A similar situation led to a change in the way Spanish birth registries work, allowing children to be registered as born wherever the family lives and not wherever the actual delivery took place (forcing the registers to list the actual place made it seem as if most towns were just dying out when they were not). Do you know if people from Liechtenstein can also do that, register as “born in Liechtenstein” regardless of actual delivery location? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/48 "2016-06-06T15:53:40Z")
One way to answer the OP is to ask why Prussia, Bavaria Hanover and several other states spoke German instead of indigenous Bavarian, Prussian and Hanoverian. The answer is that the German language preceded the German state. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/49 "2016-06-06T15:56:28Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Heh. > > A similar situation led to a change in the way Spanish birth registries work, allowing children to be registered as born wherever the family lives and not wherever the actual delivery took place (forcing the registers to list the actual place made it seem as if most towns were just dying out when they were not). Do you know if people from Liechtenstein can also do that, register as “born in Liechtenstein” regardless of actual delivery location? I don’t know, but I guess the birth certificates indicate the correct place of birth. I’m also assuming that the Liechtenstein citizenship law follows the _jus sanguinis_, so it doesn’t make a difference when the babies are actually born in Switzerland or Austria. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/50 "2016-06-06T16:05:11Z")
The Hapsburg rulers of Austria acquired much non-German speaking territory to the East which was never folded into the Holy Roman Empire. Thus Karl VI was Holy Roman Emperor, Archduke of Austria, King of Hungary, et cetera, and even called himself King of Spain. During the late Middle Ages and early Modern period, a single man was both Holy Roman Emperor and emperor of the Habsburg domains, but the overlap between these two empires was only slight — mainly just Austria itself. Thus, when Germany was effectively conquered by Napoleon, it was natural that _the Habsburg domains — including Austria of course — were separated from Germany and left to the “Habsburg” Emperor_ (who happened to be Napoleon’s father-in-law). I think this may help explain why Austria developed into a political entity separate from Germany. I hope the Boards’ experts will correct me. I think it also explains why Liechtenstein is an independent country. That Principality, although always closely allied with Austria, “reported directly to” the Holy Roman Emperor rather than the Archduke of Austria, a political distinction that was important (even though the Emperor and the Archduke had been the same person!). When the German Confederation collapsed, Liechtenstein was _not adjacent_ to what was left of Germany, so independence was logical. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/51 "2016-06-06T16:27:00Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > The German language came from Norse… the language of Norway. I believe this is backwards - Norse developed from the original German language. As far as we know, German as a spoken language came from tribes that moved westward into Germany and Scandinavia, probably originally from somewhere in north-central Asia. Eventually they came into conflict with the Gauls as they expanded in all directions. Eventually some of the tribes formed more powerful groups and were able to take over chunks of the collapsing Roman Empire. But these groups didn’t really have coherent “ethnic” identity. German simply split into different language groups: West German, North German, and East German. West German, excluding its lingual descendants of English, Frisian, and Dutch, turned into the “German” language of today. North German split off at some point and forms the basis for the Scandinavian family of languages/dialects (as you wish to describe them, given that they are often mutually comprehensible to this day). East German sort of died out, as many of those tribes migrated west and merged into other Germanic groups or assimilated into Slavic kingdoms. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/52 "2016-06-06T16:43:54Z")
The [Frisian language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_languages) and the [Frisian people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisians), by the way, don’t get nearly the respect they deserve. Frisian is spoken by half a million people in the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark. Frisian is for the most part unintelligible for German speakers (don’t know about Dutch and Danish). ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/53 "2016-06-06T16:50:46Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > For a few thousand years Europe was a bunch of loosely-organized tribal affiliations with constantly shifting territories, fealties, and alliances. And only historical myopia can claim that’s changed. Europe’s been redrawn two or three times in the last century, and middle Europe has been rearranged within the lifetime of everyone participating here. (Sorry, kid, I didn’t see you over there.) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/54 "2016-06-06T17:12:01Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > One way to answer the OP is to ask why Prussia, Bavaria Hanover and several other states spoke German instead of indigenous Bavarian, Prussian and Hanoverian. The answer is that the German language preceded the German state. So logically - there was enough interaction between the various little “kingdoms” (Dutchies, princedoms, etc. including Austria) that the language stayed fairly common and connected. The area (AFAIK) was never settled over by a conquering people the way the Angles and Saxons took over Britain, and then the Normans took over them; or that the Romans took over much of western Europe and imposed their language (which became French, Spanish, Italian, Catalan, Portuguese etc.) So the original language stayed, and stayed the common language. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/55 "2016-06-06T17:29:41Z")
The current easternmost state of Austria, Burgenland, was attached to Hungary up until some post-Versailles treaties arranged for it to become part of Austria, since the majority of the inhabitants were German-speaking (Croatians actually outnumbered the Hungarians). The English Wikipedia page for Burgenland includes this snippet which highlights how Burgenland is historically different from the rest of what is now Austria: “Burgenland is the only Austrian state which has never been part of the Archduchy of Austria, Holy Roman Empire, German Confederation nor Austria-Hungary’s Cisleithania.” Some of my German-speaking ancestors came from this area to the United States in the mid 1880s, settling in a large group in the town of Stevens Point in Central Wisconsin. Oddly, the Point locals took to calling them Bohemians, which was an entirely different part of the Hapsburg lands. It is interesting to look at the census records for my ancestors and many great/uncles and aunts to see how many different variations they had their birthplace recorded as. Some as Austria-Hungary, some as Austria, some as Hungary. Their baptismal records (thanks for the legwork, Mormons) are all in Hungarian, as that was the civic language in force. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/56 "2016-06-06T17:38:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > My understanding is that the Swiss German “dialect” is effectively a separate language, and not easily comprehensible to many other German speakers. [Austrian German](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_German) may also not be intelligible to northern Germans, and could potentially be considered a separate language, but it normally isn’t. Mrs SteveMB tells me of at least one case where a group of German speakers from various regions gave up and switched to conversing in English. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/57 "2016-06-06T18:16:32Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > The current easternmost state of Austria, Burgenland, was attached to Hungary up until some post-Versailles treaties arranged for it to become part of Austria, since the majority of the inhabitants were German-speaking (Croatians actually outnumbered the Hungarians). > > The English Wikipedia page for Burgenland includes this snippet which highlights how Burgenland is historically different from the rest of what is now Austria: “Burgenland is the only Austrian state which has never been part of the Archduchy of Austria, Holy Roman Empire, German Confederation nor Austria-Hungary’s Cisleithania.” > > Some of my German-speaking ancestors came from this area to the United States in the mid 1880s, settling in a large group in the town of Stevens Point in Central Wisconsin. Oddly, the Point locals took to calling them Bohemians, which was an entirely different part of the Hapsburg lands. It is interesting to look at the census records for my ancestors and many great/uncles and aunts to see how many different variations they had their birthplace recorded as. Some as Austria-Hungary, some as Austria, some as Hungary. Their baptismal records (thanks for the legwork, Mormons) are all in Hungarian, as that was the civic language in force. Which goes to show that Austria-Hungary was called Austria- **Hungary** for a reason. After the [Austro-Hungarian Compromise of 1867](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_Compromise_of_1867), your German-speaking ancestors would have come under pressure to adopt the Hungarian language and culture, even though they lived less than 100 miles away from Vienna. Might have been a contributing factor for their decision to emigrate. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/58 "2016-06-06T18:18:54Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I believe this is backwards - Norse developed from the original German language. Not quite. Both Norse and German are Germanic languages. “Germanic” is the name for the extended family (and, if you speak German, for Indo-European: Indogermanisch). Norse is a North Germanic language, and German is a West Germanic language. They are cousins once removed, more or less. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/59 "2016-06-06T18:20:42Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > The [Frisian language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_languages) and the [Frisian people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisians), by the way, don’t get nearly the respect they deserve. Frisian is spoken by half a million people in the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark. Frisian is for the most part unintelligible for German speakers (don’t know about Dutch and Danish). Actually, German and Dutch are, if not precisely, very close to being a [Dialect Continuum.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect_continuum) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638/60 "2016-06-06T18:37:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Actually, German and Dutch are, if not precisely, very close to being a [Dialect Continuum.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect_continuum) My great-grandfather spoke a Franconian dialect, which is on the extreme end of the Dutch-German continuum at a T-intersection with the Low-High German continuum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-austrians-speak-german/756638.md?page=4)