# Why do automatic cars have a "park" setting, but manuals don't?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 26, 2002, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008 "2002-12-26T19:09:14Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Mikahw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikahw)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/1 "2002-12-26T19:09:14Z")
Well, the question is basically in the title. No deep meaning here. Why do automatics have a “park” setting, but manuals don’t? Is there some reason that automatics need them more than manuals, is it just convention, or is there some reason why it’s impossible to put it on a manual?
Thanks in advance.
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### Author:  [@Farmer2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer2)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/2 "2002-12-26T19:18:23Z")
That’s a good question. Although some will say just to put it in gear and/or put the parking brake on, why not put a mechanism in the gear box that somehow locks the gear box? 1234RP?
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### Author:  [@Dilbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dilbert)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/3 "2002-12-26T19:19:53Z")
There is no reason to park on a manual. You put them in gear and the engine hold them there (in a low gear anyway). In an automatic, leaving it in gear won’t keep it from rolling, so they put park in to do that job. Sure my explanation is probably overly simplistic, and I’ll bet someone will come along to expand on it.
This may help though:
> **[When I put my car in park what really keeps it from moving?](https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/car-in-park.htm)**
>
> Putting your car in park ensures that you won't roll down that hill. Have you ever wondered exactly how it's connected to your transmission to keep it from spinning? Find out!
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/4 "2002-12-26T19:24:30Z")
> **[How Automatic Transmissions Work](https://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission.htm)**
>
> Both automatic and manual transmissions accomplish exactly the same thing, but they do it in totally different ways. And it turns out that the way an automatic transmission does it is pretty amazing!
> [@](#):
>
> It may seem like a simple thing to lock the transmission and keep it from spinning; but there are actually some complex requirements for this mechanism:
>
> ```
> * You have to be able to disengage it when the car is on a hill (the weight of the car is resting on the mechanism).
> * You have to be able to engage the mechanism even if the lever does not line up with the gear.
> * Once engaged, something has to prevent the lever from popping up and disengaging.
>
> ```
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### Author:  [@Farmer2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer2)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/5 "2002-12-26T19:28:00Z")
Surely the car is hard to get going when parked in a low gear, but what about theft? I’ve never really owned a stick, but have driven then a few times. I would think it would be easier to steal a manual car than an automatic.
The thing with auto’s is that the shifter is tied in with having to use the brake to shift (not all cars, but most) along with the key lock that holds the steering wheel in place.
With any manual I got into, it’s seams as though all you need is ignition and a push from another car, and your gone.
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### Author:  [@Mikahw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikahw)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/6 "2002-12-26T19:28:47Z")
Ahh, of course. Even when the engine’s stopped on an automatic, the wheels can still move because of the torque converter, right?
Of course, I’ve never actually driven a manual, (except, of course, for the Ferarri F355 arcade game in simulation mode) so I forgot that you wouldn’t have to worry about it without a TQ. Hmm, I diserve a :smack: . 😃
So, how much of a hill could you hold a manual on without using the parking brake? I know you’d put the PB on anyway, but would it really hold on a steep hill in first without the PB?
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/7 "2002-12-26T19:32:35Z")
I’ve never seen a car parked in first gear roll. If you’re really worried about it, park in reverse. The transmission does a far better job of holding than any parking brake. The wise driver in San Francisco uses both, _and_ crimps the tires to the curb.
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### Author:  [@Dilbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dilbert)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/8 "2002-12-26T20:01:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Farmer2 \*
> \*\*The thing with auto’s is that the shifter is tied in with having to use the brake to shift (not all cars, but most) along with the key lock that holds the steering wheel in place. \*\*
If you can get the key ignition switch to turn forward, you’ve unlocked the steering wheel, regardless of automatic or manual transmission. Most (if not all) manuals have a button that engaged the steering column lock. You can’t get the key out without depressing it. This happens by default when you put an automatic in park and remove the key. Once the key is forward on an automatic, the transmission can be moved out of park easily. In some automatics if the car is not running, you don’t need to depress the break to get the car out of park (all the cars that I’ve tried this on where GM’s and they all did it). So ease of theft isn’t a real difference, as far as I know.
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### Author:  [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/9 "2002-12-26T20:32:10Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Nametag \*
> **The transmission does a far better job of holding than any parking brake.**
That’s actually been a point of some intense debate in similar threads in the past. There are two diehard camps here, and agreement was never reached, but the parking brake crowd ended up with the numbers and the backup of various automotive websites.
It is true that leaving it in gear or in “park” will hold the car without the parking brake’s risk of slip, but manual cars can and do jump out of gear, and in automatics, the little pawl which engages “park” in the transmission is a fairly delicate item. So, your car won’t ever slowly slip down the hill, but it will either hold perfectly still, or go flying downhill with nothing to arrest its speed at all.
What I’ve always done (backed up by previous SDMB discussions) is to firmly apply the parking brake FIRST, while you still have the footbrake depressed. Slowly release the footbrake and let the parking brake take the strain of the car’s weight. _Then_ you can put the transmission in gear in a manual, or “park” in an auto. But always do both.
The parking brake is the primary device for holding a car on a hill. Leaving it in gear or in “park” is a backup only, should the handbrake slip. The other advantage of this is that you are not putting strain on your gearbox, engine, or in an automatic, the parking pawl (it’s really not designed for an overnight stay in San Francisco). And, as mentioned, you will also find it much easier to get out of gear or “park” when you next drive the car.
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### Author:  [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/10 "2002-12-26T20:38:05Z")
Automatics haven’t always had **PARK**. And then the first ones with it, did not require you to have the car in “Park” when you turned it off. As to the latter, I know since I had a car roll over a retaining wall, once. It stopped when the front wheels were over the wall, so it wasn’t as bad as it could have been. :eek:
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### Author:  [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/11 "2002-12-26T21:15:54Z")
Related threads:
[Do you use your parking brake?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=134212&highlight=parking+brake)
[Parking Brake](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=5031&highlight=parking+brake)
[Cite](http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/licensing/skills/vehcomp/light/unit1.html#anch5) regarding applying the hand brake first (Western Australian Govt. Driver Competency Standards).
[Another cite](http://www.sdt.com.au/PARKINGTIPS.htm) (Safe Drive Training Australia)
> [@](#):
>
> Whenever you are parking a car, park and stop safely. At this point your footbrake should be holding the car stationary, select neutral no matter whether the car has an automatic or manual transmission, pull on and apply the parkbrake. The correct way to apply the parkbrake is to push the button in as you are pulling it on. Avoid the ratchet sound and reduce wear on the metal teeth. Let the button out as the parkbrake is on, pull again firmly to hear one click, let your foot slowly off the footbrake, now the car’s weight is held by the parking brake, now select 1st gear in a manual or PARK in an automatic for added security.
[Last cite](http://www.womanmotorist.com/MAINTENANCE/safety-brakes-01.shtml), promise. ([www.womanmotorist.com](http://www.womanmotorist.com))
> [@](#):
>
> The proper procedure is to secure the vehicle with the parking brake first, then move the shift lever into Park.
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### Author:  [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/12 "2002-12-26T21:48:27Z")
While this is excellent advice and I recommend it heartily:
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by TheLoadedDog \*
> \*\* What I’ve always done (backed up by previous SDMB discussions) is to firmly apply the parking brake FIRST, while you still have the footbrake depressed. Slowly release the footbrake and let the parking brake take the strain of the car’s weight._\*
…this following is sorta silly (I know it’s not _your_ quote, **TD** ):
> [@](#):
>
> Avoid the ratchet sound and reduce wear on the metal teeth.
The metal teeth will probably last about 120-500 years, give or take. What you are trying to avoid is excessive strain on the cable, linkage, and actuators by having to pull up excessively hard when the foot-brake is not applied.
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### Author:  [@Anachronism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anachronism)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/13 "2002-12-26T22:04:32Z")
My old ford escort would roll when parked and left in gear. It would roll a few feet at a time in kind of a jerky motion and you could hear the engine turn over when it moved. I am not sure if the small engine or high miledge where factors. It didn’t take all that steep of a hill to do it either.
I always use the parking brake only with my current manual unless I am on a hill, but the best thing to do would be to use both all the time.
I was always told to **not** push the button in while pulling up on the parking brake. If you do you may let the brake drop down before you release the botton and not get enough hoding power.
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### Author:  [@catmandu42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catmandu42)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/14 "2002-12-26T23:11:43Z")
There is a VERY good reason not to put a “Park” gear on a manual transmission, and that is so some rube driving down I-70 doesn’t accidentaly shift from “5” to “P” while trying to pass a truck full of illegal immigrants, and leave his transmission in tiny, tiny pieces all over the highway behind him. Meanwhile, said rube will be too busy to notice this, because he’s just gone through the windshield of his new 2003 Ford Bloatabout at 75mph. and ended up embedded in a “Stuckey’s” sign.
Personally, I think it’s all the reason we need. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Mikahw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikahw)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/15 "2002-12-27T00:45:54Z")
Yeah, but they could put an interlock on it just like many manual transmissions have a reverse interlock these days.
Besides, the pawl doesn’t actually lock up the wheels, does it?
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### Author:  [@catmandu42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catmandu42)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2002, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/16 "2002-12-27T01:12:58Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Mikahw \*
> \*\*Yeah, but they could put an interlock on it just like many manual transmissions have a reverse interlock these days.
>
> Besides, the pawl doesn’t actually lock up the wheels, does it? \*\*
On a manual tranny, it probably would lock the wheels, and sure, they _could_ put an interlock on it, but that would cost money, and why spend money on something that’s not really needed anyway? That was _my_ point.
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### Author:  [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2002, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/17 "2002-12-27T01:25:46Z")
I thought there was a problem with leaving a car “resting” on the transmission with a manual. Sometimes when I park in a hurry - clutch and brake, lift the handbrake and slip it into first then igntion off it does this. I notice that when I push in the clutch to shift the box into neutral the car moves foward slightly. This means the car has been restrained by the gearbox. I use the lower gears while parked as a backup to the handbrake proper.
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### Author:  [@Mikahw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikahw)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2002, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/18 "2002-12-27T01:25:48Z")
Why would it be any different on a manual than an automatic? Seems to me that they could use the exact same mechanism.
Besides, even if it did lock, it’s not like you’re going to go through the window. You don’t get too much traction when you’re skidding excessively.
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### Author:  [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2002, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/19 "2002-12-27T02:34:59Z")
_Why would it be any different on a manual than an automatic? Seems to me that they could use the exact same mechanism._
They have different shift linkages and different fundamental designs. The exact same mechanism is not applicable.
_Besides, even if it did lock, it’s not like you’re going to go through the window. You don’t get too much traction when you’re skidding excessively._
Well, it’s not like hitting a tree, but between rapid deceleration and likely loss of control, it’s not something I’d take lightly. The possibility for damage to people and transmission parts would be significant.
To answer the OP, the auto manufacturers have no incentive to devise a “park” feature for manual transmissions. There’s virtually no demand for them, nor is there a compelling reason to have them.
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### Author:  [@catmandu42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catmandu42)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-automatic-cars-have-a-park-setting-but-manuals-dont/145008/20 "2002-12-27T03:14:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Pushkin \*
> \*\*I use the lower gears while parked as a backup to the handbrake proper. \*\*
Actually, the best reason to use the handbrake with a manual transmission (excluding being parked on steep grades) is that it helps keep your brakes in adjustment.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Mikahw \ ***Besides, even if it did lock, it’s not like you’re going to go through the window. You don’t get too much traction when you’re skidding excessively.**
I was doing what is known as “Exaggerating” in order to entertain a little. Seems that I failed. 😉
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