# Why do B&W striped shirts = French **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 22, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642 "2005-04-22T17:40:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/1 "2005-04-22T17:40:11Z")
At least to British people. I see this on Monty Python, (and Benny Hill) and it seems to be shorthand to say someone is French because they are wearing the thin, horizontally striped shirt. What gives? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/2 "2005-04-22T17:56:17Z")
How odd. I associate that kind of shirt with [Russian sailors.](http://www.redsoldier.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=57) ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/3 "2005-04-22T18:05:52Z")
That is the shirt. But usually, you see someone dressed in black pants, with one of those shirts, (black and white) and they are smoking, that means they are French. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/4 "2005-04-22T18:10:08Z")
WAG would be that it’s a “continental” look and the Pythons added the mustache, beret and accent to make it specifically “French.” ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/5 "2005-04-22T18:11:47Z")
You need a load of garlic hanging around the neck, a beret, moustache and a bicycle with a wicker basket on the front for the authentic look. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/6 "2005-04-22T18:19:22Z")
I think it has something to do with the classic [Apache dancer](http://www.picturequest.com/itemDetail.aspx?itemID=22405521) get-up. ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/7 "2005-04-22T18:22:49Z")
Do mimes perhaps play a part in the stereotype? > [@](#): > > You need a load of garlic hanging around the neck, a beret, moustache and a bicycle with a wicker basket on the front for the authentic look I thought garlic was the trademark foodstuff of Italians (IAAI-A, btw). For the French look, there should be a overly long baguette protruding form the basket. Paging Dr. Freud… ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/8 "2005-04-22T21:52:52Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I think it has something to do with the classic [Apache dancer](http://www.picturequest.com/itemDetail.aspx?itemID=22405521) get-up. Uh, Eve? Could you explain where the term “Apache dancer” came from? I clicked on the link and saw the couple dressed as Apache dancers, but they just looked like they were French. I always thought that Apache dancers were Native Americans performing a traditional dance. Obviously, I’m wrong and am now eager to shed my ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/9 "2005-04-22T22:11:48Z")
> [@caveman](#): > > Do mimes perhaps play a part in the stereotype? Not just any mime, the [King of Mimes, Marcel Marceau](http://lamaisondesevres.org/pag/marc.html) originated that familiar costume in 1947 for his alter-ego “Bip”. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/10 "2005-04-22T22:44:19Z")
> [@medstar](#): > > Uh, Eve? Could you explain where the term “Apache dancer” came from? I clicked on the link and saw the couple dressed as Apache dancers, but they just looked like they were French. I always thought that Apache dancers were Native Americans performing a traditional dance. Obviously, I’m wrong and am now eager to shed my ignorance. “Apache” was used to refer to French street gangs in the 1900s [(link.)](http://www.savateaustralia.com/Savate%20Essays/apache.htm) > [@](#): > > The typical French Apache was a young, lower-class, pimp-type vagabond with connections to the underworld. An interesting by-product of this underground culture was “Apache dancing” – a type of “street swing” which simulated actions and movements of urban violence, and actually contained combat techniques particular to the typical Apache’s repertoire. This dance was reportedly so violent that participants sometimes died of injuries sustained from being thrown across bars, onto tables, or after being struck with mistimed blows. A typical Apache dance might act out a fight between two lovers, blow by blow. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/11 "2005-04-23T04:47:02Z")
I remember Shields and Yarnell\* doing a bit like that. I knew, somehow, that the dancers were supposed to be French. (most embarrsing admission on the dope yet) ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/12 "2005-04-23T07:56:51Z")
> [@+MDI](#): > > You need a load of garlic hanging around the neck, a beret, moustache and a bicycle with a wicker basket on the front for the authentic look. Not garlic, onions. What you’re describing is the classic archetypal french onion seller. [Here’s one.](http://www.documentography.com/issue/5/ph/magali_delporte/1.html) The simple answer to the OP is that striped shirt, beret, etc was at one time a common outfit for a Frenchman, in particular the Bretons who came over here selling onions, and were therefore the Frenchmen that most people were most familiar with in person. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/13 "2005-04-23T08:41:16Z")
**WotNot** is correct. The striped shirt and beret was traditional attire in Britony. It was quite common, at least in south eastern England when I was young, for Breton onion sellers to travel around on bikes covered in strings of onions, plying their trade door-to-door. I think I last saw one in the early 70’s. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/14 "2005-04-23T14:37:50Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > That is the shirt. But usually, you see someone dressed in black pants, with one of those shirts, (black and white) and they are smoking, that means they are French. Don’t forget that white face paint and the hat…always brings to mind mimes, which brings to mind…French. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/15 "2005-04-23T14:39:10Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Not just any mime, the [King of Mimes, Marcel Marceau](http://lamaisondesevres.org/pag/marc.html) originated that familiar costume in 1947 for his alter-ego “Bip”. Oops…spoke too soon. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/16 "2005-04-23T14:53:47Z")
> [@jasonh300](#): > > Oops…spoke too soon. 🙂 Ni, too late. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/17 "2005-04-23T14:54:50Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > Ni, too late. That’s **No** :smack: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/18 "2005-04-23T15:57:36Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > Ni, too late. Would you like a shrubbery? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/19 "2005-04-23T21:41:31Z")
Well, googling for French painting of guys in their undershirts yeilds a paucity of stripes: Manet: [http://www.villagehatshop.com/media/art-manet-boating.jpg](http://www.villagehatshop.com/media/art-manet-boating.jpg) Seurat: [http://members.aol.com/zacarious1/Seurat.jpg](http://members.aol.com/zacarious1/Seurat.jpg) Renoir: [http://www.sunyniagara.cc.ny.us/homepags/Knechtel/renoir.jpg](http://www.sunyniagara.cc.ny.us/homepags/Knechtel/renoir.jpg) Wait - paydirt: [![](https://img.artlebedev.ru/studio/posters/picasso/picasso-1280x1024.jpg) ](https://img.artlebedev.ru/studio/posters/picasso/picasso-1280x1024.jpg) [http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/d/images/differ\_picasso.JPG](http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/d/images/differ_picasso.JPG) [http://www.peterfetterman.com/images/artists/doisneau/picasso\_sm.jpg](http://www.peterfetterman.com/images/artists/doisneau/picasso_sm.jpg) So maybe the French sterotype is due to a single Spaniard. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642/20 "2005-04-24T07:11:46Z")
Don’t forget the [Breton flag](http://www.brittany-shops.com/index_en.php?rayons=8,9). Obviously black & white horizontal stripes = Breton. (Curious to know which was first, the shirts or the flag…) Several months ago in a thread which dealt with the mutual intelligibility of certain European languages, there was at least one link to an article in a British paper profiling some Bretons who continue to sell onions via bicycle in England & Wales to this day. I’m astounded by the economics of this. Surely onions grow in Britain… right? Are these special onions? Do they cost so much more than domestic onions that the trip across the Channel is at least self-financing? Is there such a glut in the French onion market that export becomes necessary? All a big mystery to me… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-b-w-striped-shirts-french/300642.md?page=2)