# Why do black people think Napoleon shot off the Sphinx's nose? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 8, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448 "2004-01-08T17:05:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/61 "2004-01-12T15:15:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*\ ***t-keela** , that side you linked to has no provenance — no author named. This is an authoritative site? \*\* I didn’t check the sources on this particular cite. I posted it because it was one of the first that I came across that explained what I had mentioned earlier. That, “I was under the impression…” To be honest with you, I had learned about the evidence (the geological research) several years ago. Other aspects of the theory I came up over the years in my own quest for answers. In more recent years the idea of an earlier civilization has been put forth by the scientific community and accepted by many as likely in fact. As far as cites go, I can’t give you a specific source for where I got this information. I studied it in college. I read it in the news. I saw it on TV. etc. etc. there are many legitimate cites and even more that are not. Sometimes a person has to do the work when searching for answers. The Sphinx is carved out of the native limestone. There is no way to “date” the rock through typical methods such as when it was quarried or other similar structures. There are no written references to its origin. There IS however, severe erosion to the body that can be measured. The weathering shows that water (from rainfall), not flooding or wind blown sand was the key factor in this erosion. There are also several ideas about how the erosion could be so severe in a relatively short time without water being the culprit. So far, none are really acceptable. Occam’s razor suggests to me therefore, the Sphinx existed when Egypt was NOT a desert and had a wetter climate. Minimal figures on this date are from 7500-10,000 years ago. At least 5000BCE Egypt’s region started becoming increasingly more arid. In addition, for much of the known history of the Sphinx, it was buried for the most part. This should have protected it from wind/sand erosion, it typically does everything else that is found buried. Anyway, I could go on… BUT I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. AND as far as a pre-Egyptian society. There’s plenty of evidence in that regard as well. I’m not suggesting a technologically advanced or superior society, no Atlanteans or ET’s or similar tripe. I am merely referring to the people that were the Egyptians ancestors. The predecessors of the Great Empire that followed. Is it so hard to believe they (the Egyptians) had ancestors, if not then where in Hell do people think they came from. OR is it impossible to believe that they could carve a lion out of limestone. If the Egyptians were truly responsible they would have left evidence. Sorry to leave it hanging like this but I gotta go. Start a thread. I’ll get back w/ya…don’t even have time to edit/proof. bye ---
**Author:** ![Iknowmorethanyou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ec9cab/32.png) [@Iknowmorethanyou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknowmorethanyou)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/62 "2012-11-11T21:07:51Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > There seems to be a determined effort in Afrocentric circles to present Ancient Egyptians as negroid. Cleopatra, descended from a long line of Macedonians in the wake of Alexander the Great, is particularly misappropriated for this task. You can see from the occasional representation of negroid Africans (“Nubians”) in Egyptian art that Egyptians saw themselves in distinct contrast to them. #1. Ancient Egyptian civilization did not begin with Cleopatra or her Macedonian ancestors, and as it is now asserted by modern scholarship that she did in fact have African ancestry as well, it is with those African ancestors that Ancient Egyptian civilization began. #2. There are far too many bas reliefs showing Nubians and Ancient Egyptians to be identical in physiognomy and phenotype, and why not? There differences were political and territorial, not racial. All white people are not the same complexion. A blonde haired blue eyed Scandinavian will not resemble an italian from Venice. Therefore why should be expected that all black people be the exact same color. The idea is complete idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Iknowmorethanyou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ec9cab/32.png) [@Iknowmorethanyou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknowmorethanyou)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/63 "2012-11-11T21:12:02Z")
> [@t-keela](#): > > And what facts are those…the story about Napolean or the one about the Muslims or the one about black people believing the OP? > > We don’t have many facts regarding the Sphinx at all. Not even for sure who built it or when. Or even when it was last seen with a nose at all. The fact that the beard was found in fair condition amazed me. The nose probably laid on the ground for years and was destroyed AFTER it fell off. By the numerous means related by people over the years. That would explain why it wasn’t intact when the beard was found. > > As far as the Sphinx origins as a lion, the pre-Egyptians supposedly made the Lion during the “age of Leo” and is seated facing the Zodiac he represents. Hey, I don’t know anymore than y’all do. But it makes more sense to me than some damned half-man, half-lion winged creature. Unless you’re into that ET thing. :rolleyes: > > Try the link I attached before. I think it gives some of the info. I was relating to. If not, just make a quick search and you should get thousands of hits. Meanwhile, I’ll be back in a bit with something for ya. > > \*\*The OP was in relation to why some black folks believe Napolean shot the nose off of the Sphinx? > > ans. because the Sphinx supposedly had a “black” nose…correct.\*\* > > sorry 'bout the hijack **A/S** “We stop before a Sphinx; it fixes us with a terrifying stare. Its eyes still seem full of life; the left side is stained white by bird-droppings (the tip of the Pyramid of Khephren has the same long white stains); it exactly faces the rising sun, its head is grey, ears very large and protruding L.I.K.E. A. N.E.G.R.O.'S., its neck is eroded; from the front it is seen in its entirety thanks to great hollow dug in the sand; the fact that the nose is missing increases the F.L.A.T. N.E.G.R.O.I.D. effect. Besides, IT WAS C.E.R.T.A.I.N.L.Y. E.T.H.I.O.P.I.A.N.; T.H.E. L.I.P.S. A.R.E. T.H.I.C.K…” French author Gustave Flaubert > **[Great Sphinx of Giza](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_of_Giza)** > > This is an accepted version of this page > > The Great Sphinx of Giza is a limestone statue of a reclining sphinx, a mythical creature with the head of a human and the body of a lion. Facing east, it stands on the Giza Plateau on the west bank of the Nile in Giza, Egypt. The face of the Sphinx appears to represent the pharaoh Khafre. The original shape of the Sphinx was cut from bedrock of the Eocene-aged Mokattam Formation, and has since been restored with layers of limestone blocks. It measures ... ---
**Author:** ![Iknowmorethanyou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ec9cab/32.png) [@Iknowmorethanyou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknowmorethanyou)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/64 "2012-11-11T21:13:22Z")
“the Sphinx has a distinctive “A.F.R.I.C.A.N.,” “N.U.B.I.A.N.,” or “N.E.G.R.O.I.D.” aspect” THE GREAT SPHINX CONTROVERSY by Dr. Robert M. Schoch Boston University © 1995 [A modified version of this manuscript was published in the “Fortean Times” (P.O. Box 2409, London NW5 4NP) No. 79, February‑March, 1995, pp. 34‑39.] > **[Great Sphinx Controversy Giza  Egypt Zahi Hawass  Robert M. Schoch](http://www.robertschoch.net/Great%20Sphinx%20Controversy.htm)** > > Dr. Robert M. Schoch discusses Egyptologys view of scientific analysis of geological evidence redating the Great Sphinx of Giza, Khafre, Khufu and the Great Pyramid in Predynastic Egypt. Discussions about Zahi Hawass and John Anthony West, the new... ---
**Author:** ![Iknowmorethanyou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ec9cab/32.png) [@Iknowmorethanyou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknowmorethanyou)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/65 "2012-11-11T21:14:45Z")
> [@t-keela](#): > > And what facts are those…the story about Napolean or the one about the Muslims or the one about black people believing the OP? > > We don’t have many facts regarding the Sphinx at all. Not even for sure who built it or when. Or even when it was last seen with a nose at all. The fact that the beard was found in fair condition amazed me. The nose probably laid on the ground for years and was destroyed AFTER it fell off. By the numerous means related by people over the years. That would explain why it wasn’t intact when the beard was found. > > As far as the Sphinx origins as a lion, the pre-Egyptians supposedly made the Lion during the “age of Leo” and is seated facing the Zodiac he represents. Hey, I don’t know anymore than y’all do. But it makes more sense to me than some damned half-man, half-lion winged creature. Unless you’re into that ET thing. :rolleyes: > > Try the link I attached before. I think it gives some of the info. I was relating to. If not, just make a quick search and you should get thousands of hits. Meanwhile, I’ll be back in a bit with something for ya. > > \*\*The OP was in relation to why some black folks believe Napolean shot the nose off of the Sphinx? > > ans. because the Sphinx supposedly had a “black” nose…correct.\*\* > > sorry 'bout the hijack **A/S** “…Though its proportions are colossal, the outline is pure and graceful; the expression of the head is mild, gracious, and tranquil; THE CHARACTER IS AFRICAN, but the mouth, and lips OF WHICH ARE T.H.I.C.K., has a softness and delicacy of execution truly admirable; it seems real life and flesh.” Vivant Denon etched the image of the Sphinx of Giza around 1798, prior to its defacement. This written account is from the 1803 issue of Universal Magazine; in Denon’s own words. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/66 "2012-11-11T21:15:11Z")
Z.o.m.b.i.e. ETA: How wonderfully odd. The system converted my all-caps ZOMBIE to an upper-and-lower-case Zombie. Okay, seriously, did Flaubert speak in period.punctuated.words? ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/67 "2012-11-11T22:13:14Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Okay, seriously, did Flaubert speak in period.punctuated.words? Looks like an attempt to keep search engines from indexing the posts with those keywords. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/68 "2012-11-11T22:25:22Z")
Hey, I want in on some of that 2004 action! (Now that I’m checking the dates…) What are we talking about, The Sphinx? How 'bout the nose on that guy. Wonder what happened to it. Is there a racial aspect to this? I know Jesus was around back then (Ancient Egypt, not 2004), and I don’t think he was really white, like all the pictures show. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/69 "2012-11-11T22:46:37Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Hey, I want in on some of that 2004 action! (Now that I’m checking the dates..) What are we talking about, The Sphinx? How 'bout the nose on that guy. Wonder what happened to it. Is there a racial aspect to this? I know Jesus was around back then (Ancient Egypt, not 2004), and I don’t think he was really white, like all the pictures show. Jesus WAS white. 'Cause he was born in Missouri. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/70 "2012-11-11T22:52:44Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Jesus WAS white. 'Cause he was born in Missouri. !!! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/71 "2012-11-11T23:04:44Z")
I’m a 50 year old white guy and I heard this in college from even older white guys. Turns out it is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/72 "2012-11-11T23:11:06Z")
> [@Iknowmorethanyou](#): > > #1. Ancient Egyptian civilization did not begin with Cleopatra or her Macedonian ancestors, and as it is now asserted by modern scholarship that she did in fact have African ancestry as well, it is with those African ancestors that Ancient Egyptian civilization began. Nobody in standard modern scholarship asserts this and nobody believes this. > [@](#): > > #2. There are far too many bas reliefs showing Nubians and Ancient Egyptians to be identical in physiognomy and phenotype, and why not? There differences were political and territorial, not racial. There aren’t any such depictions to my knowledge. OTOH, there are many depictions that clearly show that the Nubians were considered to be a separate people with a distinctly different appearance. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/73 "2012-11-11T23:43:09Z")
@ **Iknowmorethanyou** : Dude(tte), you’re new here, so you may not have noticed that this thread is two months shy of its ninth birthday, the 'Doper who started this thread hasn’t been active on this board in seven years, and you probably don’t know that at least one of the folks who posted to the thread has gone to that great fact-checking room in the sky. Welcome to the 'Dope! 😃 ETA: but, more importantly: white Hispanic female, early 50s. Many years ago, I heard the story that BN’s troops shot the Sphinx’s nose off. Within the past 5 years, I heard that was untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/74 "2012-11-12T00:13:28Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Jesus WAS white. 'Cause he was born in Missouri. Then why did he have a Mexican name? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/75 "2012-11-12T00:24:44Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Then why did he have a Mexican name? He was an anchor baby. Well, did _you_ ever hear of Mary getting deported? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/76 "2012-11-12T04:07:52Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > The Sphynx is gay? > > Where is Weekly World News for these late breaking stories when you need 'em? A beard need not be a homosexual ploy. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/77 "2012-11-12T04:09:08Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Jesus WAS white. 'Cause he was born in Missouri. As for Afrocentrism, you will hear very pointed assertions that Moses was black. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/78 "2012-11-12T15:20:18Z")
Yes, I’m white, from Canada, and I had always heard that meme about Napoleon auntil I started reading more in depth when I planned a trip there. > [@t-keela](#): > > [http://www.glasssteelandstone.com/EG/GreatSphinx.html](http://www.glasssteelandstone.com/EG/GreatSphinx.html) Seriously? This site also lists: > [@](#): > > Nearby Important Buildings > The Pyramids of Giza - Al-Haram, Giza > Mosque of Muhammad Ali Pasha - , Cairo > Petra - , Arabah > City Tower - 14 Zisman Street, Ramat-Gan > Gibor Sport Office Tower - 28 Betzalel Street, Ramat-Gan Petra and the Gibor Sport office tower??? Obviously both pinnacles of some ancient civilzation lost in time. Gibor built pointy towers, I think. Petra is two countries and at least 500 km away. Why not list the Wailing Walll and the Temples at Luxor? As for “negroid” - the further south you go, the more “Nubian” the people look, obviously some mixture with the Ethiopian inhabitants. Down near Aswan they mostly look Nubian. Up towards Luxor, and especially around Cairo, they look Arab, much like the depictions of the pharoahs in the carvings. Google images for Ankhaten, who famously tried to get “realistic” as the artistic style of the day, and you will see a very distinctive face. The only remotely negroid-appearing feature is his larger lips. (which of course, no race has a monopoly on) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/79 "2012-11-12T16:25:37Z")
I know it’s aombie thread, but I can’t resist posting. I’d heard the story about Napoleon’s soldiers (not Napoleon) shooting off the Sphinx’ nose, but I didn’t realize anyone took it seriously. The loss of the nose has become a trope in cartoons and comics – everyone is responsible for the loss of the nose Obelix is responsible in _Asterix and Cleopatra_ Mark Twain is responsible in _The Adventures of Mark Twain_ I’ve seen many other examples, which I can’t recall now. But the Great Sphinx losing its nose gets attributed to lots of cartoon characters. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448/80 "2012-11-12T17:32:04Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > As for Afrocentrism, you will hear very pointed assertions that Moses was black. So, you’re saying it MOSES who attacked the Sphynx’s nose?? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-black-people-think-napoleon-shot-off-the-sphinxs-nose/223448.md?page=5)