# Why Do Blacks LOATHE George W. Bush? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2000, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097 "2000-12-05T05:54:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/101 "2000-12-07T21:30:12Z")
Freedom, please note the last paragraph of my post. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/102 "2000-12-07T23:17:38Z")
I think that anyone who determines that George Bush is an idiot from his speaking is very irrational. His malapropisms are no worse than any other politicans, but for some reason his are so special that hes an idiot because of them. The people who think hes an idiot because he prounounces words wrong, are frankly retarted. The people who believe hes a idiot because of the few times hes messed up with his words are also retarted. The people who base it on the way he holds himself in public are simply irrational. I don’t judge people on their appearance or how they say stuff. I judge on the context of their arguement. Apparently a minority of America are too shallow to do this. Thats the only thing thats really bothered me about this election. I can even ignore Stoidela, but something about them being so stupid makes me angry. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/103 "2000-12-08T00:15:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asmodean \* > \*\*I think that anyone who determines that George Bush is an idiot from his speaking is very irrational. His malapropisms are no worse than any other politicans, but for some reason his are so special that hes an idiot because of them. The people who think hes an idiot because he prounounces words wrong, are frankly retarted. The people who believe hes a idiot because of the few times hes messed up with his words are also retarted. The people who base it on the way he holds himself in public are simply irrational. > > I don’t judge people on their appearance or how they say stuff. I judge on the context of their arguement. Apparently a minority of America are too shallow to do this. > > Thats the only thing thats really bothered me about this election. I can even ignore Stoidela, but something about them being so stupid makes me angry. \*\* Asmodean, I was going to take the time to debate this matter with you, when, in reading it, it became abundantly clear exactly why you feel as you do on the subject. That being the case, I shall not attempt to disabuse you of your ideas…to do so effectively could be construed as, well…never mind. Carry on… ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/104 "2000-12-08T00:20:54Z")
Irrational or not, this is how GWB is viewed. And if black americans are shallow because they judge a man by his words, then please let me in on the secret way you white folk do it. There are other threads discussing whether or not GWB is stupid. I have given my very rational reasons why I believe he is. The topic being discussed here is why black people did not vote for Bush. Many reasons are given, his intelligence is only one. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/105 "2000-12-08T02:47:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Irrational or not, this is how GWB is viewed. And if black americans are shallow because they judge a man by his words, then please let me in on the secret way you white folk do it. Actions? Well, in a perfect world that would be the standard. White people hold no special insight into judging a man’s worth. You are the only one here trying to make this a white Vs. black thing. I think ANYONE who thinks Bush is **stupid** is merely acting ignorant, or has allowed themselves to be blinded by partisanship. (I pleasure I know well) ---
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/106 "2000-12-08T03:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*Irrational or not, this is how GWB is viewed. And if black americans are shallow because they judge a man by his words, then please let me in on the secret way you white folk do it. > \*\* Whether or not Bush’s words reveal him to be stupid, his words are pretty much in public view for whites and blacks alike. So I don’t see how they help to explain why more blacks than whites dislike him, distrust him, and won’t vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![smilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@smilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smilla)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/107 "2000-12-08T03:32:51Z")
Keeping in mind that Biggirl’s poll was completely unscientific, and that most of my friends don’t like Bush because he’s a Republican and Republicans have never been big advocates of issues affecting the black community at large, I think it’s not so much Bush’s apparent lack of intelligence as where he’s gotten in life. Here’s a man who _possibly_ did coke in his younger days, has been picked up for drunk driving 4 (?) times, and has failed at every business venture he has been involved in. Even if he’s secretly a card-carrying member of Mensa, he’s inarticulate and has that annoying hick accent to boot. There’s more than a handful of people thinking, “If he was black, there’s no way in hell he’d be where he is right now”. On a side note, when certain spin-miesters and media personalities say that has has “personality”, that just makes me want to gag. Since when is a doofy grin, a moronic-sounding accent and a penchant for screwing up just about every sentence you utter “personality”? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/108 "2000-12-08T03:51:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asmodean \* > \*\*I don’t judge people on their appearance or how they say stuff. I judge on the context of their arguement. Apparently a minority of America are too shallow to do this. > > \*\* This is what I was responding to. When judging someone I take into account his words and his actions. Bush’s action’s include governing a state that has killed more people in one year than any other year ever. Endorsing a tax cut plan that leaves me and a lot of people I know high and dry. Taking away my right to choose what I do with my body. Plus he’s stupid. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/109 "2000-12-08T04:11:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freedom2 \* > I think ANYONE who thinks Bush is **stupid** is merely acting ignorant, or has allowed themselves to be blinded by partisanship. What?!? Look, there are perfectly good reasons to believe George W. is not the brightest. Yes, he has some political savvy, to be sure. But, I have yet to see evidence that he is capable of very intelligent thought or comprehension on policy issues. Look, **Freedom2** , I’ll grant you that Cheney seems reasonably intelligent and Scalia is a bright guy…I don’t like their views, but they are intelligent. But George W? Give me a break! ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/110 "2000-12-08T04:15:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smilla \* > I think it’s not so much Bush’s apparent lack of intelligence as where he’s gotten in life. Here’s a man who _possibly_ did coke in his younger days, has been picked up for drunk driving 4 (?) times, and has failed at every business venture he has been involved in. Even if he’s secretly a card-carrying member of Mensa, he’s inarticulate and has that annoying hick accent to boot. There’s more than a handful of people thinking, “If he was black, there’s no way in hell he’d be where he is right now”. Yes, there was a column by Patricia Williams (a black law professor) in The Nation making **precisely** this point! ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/111 "2000-12-08T04:19:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s a man who _possibly_ did coke in his younger days, has been picked up for drunk driving 4 (?) times, and has failed at every business venture he has been involved in. gossip gossip… yap yap yap… drone on drone on drone on… Facts??? Possibly schmosibly. It’s claimed that Clinton has raped several women, care to make that a relevant claim? I have only seen ONE DUI incident, and have you ever heard of that minor league team called the Texas Rangers? > [@](#): > > This is what I was responding to. When judging someone I take into account his words and his actions. Bush’s action’s include governing a state that has killed more people in one year than any other year ever. Those pesky little facts again. Ever hear of Germany? How about China? Russia? I have a feeling that those States have all executed more people in a one year time span than Texas has in it’s entire existence. > [@](#): > > On a side note, when certain spin-miesters and media personalities say that has has “personality”, that just makes me want to gag. Since when is a doofy grin, a moronic-sounding accent and a penchant for screwing up just about every sentence you utter “personality”? I just want to add that the sadist in me loves this part. When I see Bush strolling up to the podium to talk, I think he looks horrible. Ridiculous. Childish. Too young. I relish every moment knowing that if it bothers me it must seem surreal to the liberals watching.🙂 > [@](#): > > Endorsing a tax cut plan that leaves me and a lot of people I know high and dry. And it leaves you high and dry how??? By not stealing more money from others to pay for free entitlements for you? > [@](#): > > Taking away my right to choose what I do with my body. I actually think it is the baby’s body they are trying to protect, not yours. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/112 "2000-12-08T04:35:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freedom2 \* > > And it leaves you high and dry how??? > > By not stealing more money from others to pay for free entitlements for you? God, **Freedom2** , haven’t we treaded this ground before? What about all the “entitlements”…oh, sorry, they are called “contracts”…that went to Dick Cheney’s company after he became CEO? And since, as has been pointed out, there are not that many black people in the top 1% of incomes, they won’t be getting the $46,000 per year tax break that the top 1% gets…many will be getting more like the $45 break that the bottom 20% get. The more interesting question than why the Republicans don’t get more black votes is why they do get as many votes as they do from working class white folks! I think historians will marvel at how well the Reps were able to win over poor to middle class white folks, often by playing the race card, while essentially giving them nothing in return! I have to admit to a certain amount of awe myself in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/113 "2000-12-08T05:19:46Z")
[http://www.taxclarity.com](http://www.taxclarity.com) That is a site that is supposed to show you how you would do under the Gore or Bush plan. I can’t find any bias towards either of the, and I have been able to make the plan show more savings with either candidate when I plug in dfferent numbers. Talk a stroll over there and see what you think. I’d be interested in seeing how it works out. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/114 "2000-12-08T05:22:51Z")
> [@](#): > > The more interesting question than why the Republicans don’t get more black votes is why they do get as many votes as they do from working class white folks! I think historians will marvel at how well the Reps were able to win over poor to middle class white folks, often by playing the race card, while essentially giving them nothing in return! I have to admit to a certain amount of awe myself in that regard. I disagree with this paragraph in so many ways, and on so many levels, that I can not even begin to address it in this thread. If I get to it, I may try to catalogue all my disagreements with it later, although I’m not sure I will have the time until we are done with all the election threads:) ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/115 "2000-12-08T06:02:47Z")
Now why the Bush fans come into a thread called “Why do blacks loathe George W. Bush?” and then get in a huff when the reasons are given is beyond me. I thought this thread was about what minorites think of Bush and _why_ they think the way they do. I see that it is about defending Bush against any negative word said against him. I have already stated what my view is on Bush and his stands on the issues. Now I have to defend myself against allegations of shallowness, taunts of ignorance and accusations of not dealing with facts. Freedom, I get no “free entitlements” I pay taxes for the services I receive from the government. Also, China Russia and Germany were not States the last time I checked. George W Bush does not just mispronounce words: I have no problem explaining that there are different theories about how the world was formed. I mean, after all, religion has been around a lot longer than Darwinism. And I think it’s important for people to know what people believe in–but whatever the case, here’s what I believe. I believe God did create the world. And I think we’re finding out more and more and more as to how it actually happened. Us News and World Report 12/11/00 [http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/991206/bushint.htm](http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/991206/bushint.htm) “The fundamental question is, ‘Will I be a successful president when it comes to foreign policy?’ I will be, but until I’m the president, it’s going to be hard for me to verify that I think I’ll be more effective.”— New York Times, 6/28/00 [http://archives.nytimes.com/archives/search/](http://archives.nytimes.com/archives/search/) People make suggestions on what to say all the time. I’ll give you an example; I don’t read what’s handed to me. People say, ‘Here, here’s your speech, or here’s an idea for a speech.’ They’re changed. Trust me." New York Times 3/15/00 [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=49467&pagenumber=3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=49467&pagenumber=3) These are not examples of garbled speech, this is garbled thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/116 "2000-12-08T07:37:42Z")
In response to a claim that Bush has failed in his business ventures, **Freedom2** (after alleging rape 'gainst the President of the US) helpfully rejoinded with the following: > [@](#): > > I have only seen ONE DUI incident, and _have you ever heard of that minor league team called the Texas Rangers?_ Emphasis mine. _wiping tears of laughter from my eyes_ Hee hee hee… Man, if you’re counting the Rangers as a legitimate business success of our esteemed player-king, y’all **really** gotta start learning your history… ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/117 "2000-12-08T13:21:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Asmodean The people who think hes an idiot because he prounounces words wrong, are frankly **retarted**. The people who believe hes a idiot because of the few times hes messed up with his words are also \*\* retarted_. The people who base it on the way he holds himself in public are simply irrational. > > I don’t judge people on their appearance or how they say stuff. I judge on the\*\* context\*\* of their arguement. Apparently a minority of America are too shallow to do this. > > Thats the only thing thats really bothered me about this election. I can even ignore Stoidela, but something about them being so stupid makes me angry. (bolding mine) 1. I believe the word you were intending to use in the first part was “retarded”, which means “Delayed or impeded”, and has been used as a slang reference (now considered to be rude) to persons who have a certain developmental disabilities. I found no word “retarted”, which I suspect if it existed, would mean “to give some one tarts again”. 2. To judge some one on the “context” of their arguement would mean that you only looked at the circumstances surrounding it (context: “the part of written or spoken statment in which a word or passage at issue occurs and often specifies the meaning”). While I personally prefer to judge on the ‘content’ - the “subject, meaning etc.” of what they say. So you object to those judging Bush as being stupid based on his words? ok, got. it. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/118 "2000-12-08T14:46:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asmodean \* > **I think that anyone who determines that George Bush is an idiot from his speaking is very irrational. His malapropisms are no worse than any other politicans, but for some reason his are so special that hes an idiot because of them. The people who think hes an idiot because he prounounces words wrong, are frankly retarted. The people who believe hes a idiot because of the few times hes messed up with his words are also retarted. The people who base it on the way he holds himself in public are simply irrational.** Since I do none of these things, I’ll assume that you are not calling **me** retarded and irrational. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freedom2 \* > \*\* > He may be inarticulate, but equating this with stupid is down right ignorant on your part. \*\* Please refrain from the personal attacks. This is not The Pit. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freedom2 \* > \*\* > You are the only one here trying to make this a white Vs. black thing. I think ANYONE who thinks Bush is **stupid** is merely acting ignorant, or has allowed themselves to be blinded by partisanship. (I pleasure I know well) \*\* I never made into a black or white thing. This thread was exclusively a black thing until this remark: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asmodean \* > \*\* > I don’t judge people on their appearance or how they say stuff. I judge on the context of their arguement. Apparently a minority of America are too shallow to do this. > \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danimal \* > \*\* > Whether or not Bush’s words reveal him to be stupid, his words are pretty much in public view for whites and blacks alike. So I don’t see how they help to explain why more blacks than whites dislike him, distrust him, and won’t vote for him. \*\* It was my understanding that 51% of Americans did not vote for him. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freedom2 \* > \*\*Those pesky little facts again. Ever hear of Germany? How about China? Russia? > > I have a feeling that those States have all executed more people in a one year time span than Texas has in it’s entire existence. > \*\* Do I have to explain what a glaring red herring this is? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freedom2 \* > \*\* > By not stealing more money from others to pay for free entitlements for you? > \*\* This particular statement made me really angry. Can anyone else see how this goes a long way in explaining why blacks don’t trust Republicans? I guess it really is impossible to have a political discussion in the pit without the partisans jumping in and ruining it all. ---
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/119 "2000-12-08T15:47:12Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Danimal \* > > \*\* > > Whether or not Bush’s words reveal him to be stupid, his words are pretty much in public view for whites and blacks alike. So I don’t see how they help to explain why more blacks than whites dislike him, distrust him, and won’t vote for him. \*\* > > It was my understanding that 51% of Americans did not vote for him. > \*\* Yes, that’s my understanding too. And those 51% who didn’t vote for him included the overwhelming majority of the black voters, and a narrow _minority_ of the white voters. Both of whom heard Bush sound pretty silly a fair percentage of the time that he opened his mouth. Biggirl, I bet you’re feeling pretty harassed right now by the partisans, so let me just say that while my sympathies are usually Republican, I’m _not_ a Bush partisan. I didn’t vote for him, and I agree he is, if not bone-marrow stupid, an intellectual lightweight compared to Gore. If the overwhelming majority of blacks feel Bush isn’t intellectually well-qualified for the presidency, I _agree_ with them. What I do not understand is why more blacks would feel that way than whites, when both blacks and whites hear him commit the same malapropisms. And before Freedom2 and Asmodean jump on my back, it is not Bush’s malapropisms that convince me he’s not very smart. Eisenhower couldn’t speak in public very well either, and I think he was a pretty smart man and a good president. It’s Bush’s vague and self-contradictory policies that convince me he doesn’t think stuff through very well, and if you want me to get specific we can start another thread for it. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2000, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097/120 "2000-12-08T16:30:46Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > Originally posted by Freedom2 > > By not stealing more money from others to pay for free entitlements for you? > > * * * > > This particular statement made me really angry. Can anyone else see how this goes a long way in explaining why blacks don’t trust Republicans? Hey, **biggirl** , I just have to add that I agree with you on this statement. Freedom2, would you please list one entitlement program for Blacks? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-blacks-loathe-george-w-bush/44097.md?page=7)