# Why do cars seem to top out in speed around 200 MPH regardless of power? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 11, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109 "2016-06-11T14:38:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/41 "2016-06-13T15:00:12Z")
I suspect that the 200mph target is set more by the marketing department than the engineering department. I’ve got a friend that works for McLaren in the road car division, I’ll if he has any insights. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/42 "2016-06-13T15:07:22Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’ve always wondered what a suitably faired and geared turbo-era F1 car circa 1984 could do in a straight race. > Very light but with 1500bhp from a 1.5 litre engine you are looking at a small frontal area. must stand a chance of getting close to 500kph probably not as much as you’d expect, F1 cars are designed for a tremendous amount of downforce. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/43 "2016-06-13T15:14:39Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > probably not as much as you’d expect, F1 cars are designed for a tremendous amount of downforce. Unless “suitably faired” means adding non-standard (not F1 compliant) fairings to reduce air resistance, which can also reduce downforce. ---
**Author:** ![joema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@joema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joema)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/44 "2016-06-13T16:23:34Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’ve always wondered what a suitably faired and geared turbo-era F1 car circa 1984 could do in a straight race. > Very light but with 1500bhp from a 1.5 litre engine you are looking at a small frontal area. must stand a chance of getting close to 500kph As mentioned above, a 2005 Honda F1 car reached 257 mph at Bonneville: [Formula One car - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_car) It was trimmed for less downforce but it apparently retained the overall basic aerodynamic design. That engine was about 900 hp. There is a slight chance 1500 hp could enable it to break 300 mph (482 kph). Since power required increases as the cube of velocity it is very unlikely to reach 500 kph (310 mph). [http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculate%20HP%20For%20Speed.php](http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculate%20HP%20For%20Speed.php) ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/45 "2016-06-13T16:35:58Z")
Top Fuel dragsters and funny cars reach 300+ miles per hour using 10,000+ horsepower, but they’re also intended to accelerate as rapidly as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/46 "2016-06-13T17:07:57Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Top Fuel dragsters and funny cars reach 300+ miles per hour using 10,000+ horsepower, but they’re also intended to accelerate as rapidly as possible. And their engines are rebuilt after every heat… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/47 "2016-06-13T17:29:58Z")
> [@upend](#): > > **One thing that no-one has mentioned** is gearing. most sports cars are geared to accelerate very quickly at a little lower speed than we’re talking about. If you gear your top ratio to achieve a very high top speed, you may well be left with a very looong top gear at the expense of acceleration in that gear. In reality, that would mean that other gear ratios would probably be longer too. Actually, i made that exact point about 15 posts previously. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/48 "2016-06-13T17:32:22Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Top Fuel dragsters and funny cars reach 300+ miles per hour using 10,000+ horsepower, but they’re also intended to accelerate as rapidly as possible. > [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > And their engines are rebuilt after every heat… [From here.](http://www.3si.org/forum/f1/ever-wonder-why-top-fuel-dragster-gets-rebuilt-engine-after-each-run-615314/) > [@](#): > > 0 to 100 MPH in 0.8 seconds (the first 60 feet of the run) > > 0 to 200 MPH in 2.2 seconds (the first 350 feet of the run) > > - Under full throttle, a dragster engine will consume 11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded Boeing 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate but with 25% less energy being produced. > > - With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lockup at full throttle. > > - Including the burnout, the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load. ---
**Author:** ![joema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@joema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joema)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/49 "2016-06-13T17:46:53Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Top Fuel dragsters and funny cars reach 300+ miles per hour using 10,000+ horsepower, but they’re also intended to accelerate as rapidly as possible. A top fuel car accelerates so fast that it could allow a Z06 Corvette a 200 mph flying start, launch from a dead stop when the Z06 crosses the starting line and still beat it in the quarter mile. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/50 "2016-06-13T18:30:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > One thing I have noted is that regardless of the supercar top speeds of around 200 MPH seems to be a limit. Do you have any cite that 200 is some kind of speed limit? [Here](http://www.topcarrating.com/topspeed.php) is a list of 50 cars that all do over 245mph. Some listings are variants of the same car, but I still believe your premise is flawed. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/51 "2016-06-13T19:03:31Z")
I don’t remember giving that website permission to go into my garage. Seriously, though, that is some epic machinery. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/52 "2016-06-13T20:20:44Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Unless “suitably faired” means adding non-standard (not F1 compliant) fairings to reduce air resistance, which can also reduce downforce. yes, that’s what I was suggesting. have it teetering on the brink of take-off (as no cornering is needed) ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/53 "2016-06-14T15:03:20Z")
To get an idea of the ‘more power’ aspect for planes v cars, compare a ‘normal’ high end sports car (not absolute super car) Porshe 911 Turbo, ~3600# driven by 540hp, 6.7lb/hp to an ATR-72 turboprop airliner ~50,000# max takeoff weight driven by 5,500 takeoff hp, 9lbs/hp. The Porsche has a max speed of 198mph, the airliner a max cruise of 316mph, and will be producing significantly less than takeoff horsepower doing so. It’s just a rough illustration backing up the point others have made that the regime in which planes operate, air, is different than cars, at the ground/air interface, and that explains a lot of the difference in speed. It’s not true that planes are necessarily more powerful, relative to their weight, than high end cars. As others also noted cars have limits like tire heat capacity and traction (ability to generate enough downward aerodynamic force to hold the car on the road). The Porsche speed I would guess is an electronic limit, not necessarily the point here the car just won’t go any faster. That said the plane speed is max cruise not absolute max, and keep in the mind that the plane must generate induced drag (the drag created by the wing’s lift, not counting the parasitic frictional drag) just to hold itself up in the air. The car is held up by the ground, though OTOH as mentioned has to eventually generate induce drag for negative lift to keep it on the ground. And being held up by the ground also means friction from wheels, though that’s a smaller and smaller portion of a car’s total resistance when you get to 200mph. IOW they are different situations in any number of ways. With jets you add in the additional complexity of getting an apples to apples comparison of a jet engine’s power since the rating is expressed in static thrust at sea level, but actually at cruise the engine is generating much less thrust than at take off but the faster the plane goes, the more useful work per unit time (ie horsepower) a given amount of thrust equates to. But jet airliners aren’t basically a lot more powerful per unit weight than turboprops. Their speed advantage is mainly a function of being able to effectively apply that power at higher speeds. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/54 "2016-06-14T16:16:39Z")
There was also the CART race at Texas Motor Speedway in 2001 when drivers going 233 mph on a track with a lot of banking and experiencing blackouts. They cancelled the race and lawsuits ensued. > **[Firestone Firehawk 600](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_Firehawk_600)** > > The Firestone Firehawk 600 was a CART series auto race scheduled for April 29, 2001 at the Texas Motor Speedway in Fort Worth, Texas, United States. It was scheduled for 248 laps around the 1.5-mile (2.4 km) oval at TMS. However, it was postponed and ultimately cancelled due to concerns about driver safety. It was the only race in CART history that was canceled outright for safety reasons. > The race was sponsored by Firestone and Pioneer Corporation. > The Firestone Firehawk 600 was to be the seco... On its 2.5 mile tracks with high banking (Daytona, Talladega) NASCAR feels they can’t use the regular configuration because something disastrous would happen (cars going into stands) so they slow the cars down by restricting air input. Which gets a bunch of cars running tightly bunched at 180 mph until “The Big One” happens when someone loses control and one-third the field gets wiped out. Although they are built for very good safety ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/55 "2016-06-14T22:18:53Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > yes, that’s what I was suggesting. have it teetering on the brink of take-off (as no cornering is needed) So essentially all you’re asking is how fast a car with 1500 hp be designed to go? ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/56 "2016-06-16T14:38:38Z")
Some cars top out at 190, but have potential for going 205. Gearing a car to do 205 when the best gearing from the 6-8 available gears sees it top out at say 185 doesn’t mean the car can’t go faster, it’s just that it would make less sense to make a road car geared like that. There is a particularly quick Bently Continental GT out there that tops out at something like 168, but it’s running around tracks with supercars that can pull 190-200. Why? Most road courses are never going to let you spin faster than 150-160, so spacing out the gears to be shorter and closer in ratio is better. So, it’s likely there are more cars that can be geared to go faster (198 vs 205, or 188 vs 200, etc), but now we’re propping them up as examples of cars that have hit a wall they didn’t hit. Also, in some cases, top gear is made impractically long/tall to return MPG on highway, but the gear is so long/tall the engine couldn’t possible pull in that gear to redline at top speed, so top speed is achieved in a lower gear, and some in-between gear ratio would have produced the optimal top speed (which most aren’t pursuing anyway). Veyrons don’t race and they don’t have a racing pedigree. They can be set up for complete impracticality. . ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/57 "2016-06-16T17:38:39Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > So essentially all you’re asking is how fast a car with 1500 hp be designed to go? No, not just any car, the classic 1.5 litre turbo-beasts of the rather insane F1 era. They were something of a nightmare and my young mind wonder just what they could do if unfettered by such niceties as having to go round corners. A bit like wondering what an unrestricted M5 would do…200mph+? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/58 "2016-06-16T22:30:51Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > No, not just any car, the classic 1.5 litre turbo-beasts of the rather insane F1 era. > They were something of a nightmare and my young mind wonder just what they could do if unfettered by such niceties as having to go round corners. > > A bit like wondering what an unrestricted M5 would do…200mph+? Oh, I’ve had the same thoughts in my youth (or even still). But if you remove the need to go around corners, why stop there? Just redesign the whole thing for max speed. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/59 "2016-06-17T19:18:00Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Oh, I’ve had the same thoughts in my youth (or even still). But if you remove the need to go around corners, why stop there? Just redesign the whole thing for max speed. No, it still has be recognisably the original thing. That concept covers pretty 99% of all Top Gear challenges. ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109/60 "2016-06-17T19:27:12Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > No, not just any car, the classic 1.5 litre turbo-beasts of the rather insane F1 era. > > They were something of a nightmare and my young mind wonder just what they could do if unfettered by such niceties as having to go round corners. > > A bit like wondering what an unrestricted M5 would do…200mph+? Honda F1 did something good like this back in 2006. They took their V10 F1 car and modified it for a top speed run (removing the rear wing, etc). However, they still only managed a top speed run of around 259 mph. > **[Honda F1 sets land speed records at Bonneville - Autoblog](https://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/21/honda-f1-sets-land-speed-records-at-bonneville/)** > > All week long, the Honda Racing F1 team has been out at the Bonneville Salt Flats pursuing a lofty goal: setting a new Formula 1 car land speed record over the Bonneville flying mile with an average speed of 400 kph. Honda simply called the mission... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cars-seem-to-top-out-in-speed-around-200-mph-regardless-of-power/757109.md?page=2)