# Why do Catholic school girls have to wear plaid skirts? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 15, 2008, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427 "2008-05-15T13:42:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/41 "2008-05-16T00:16:38Z")
[QUOTE=rocking chair] hmmm, the catholic schools in my area didn’t have skirts. they had jumpers, or sheath dresses with blouses. [/QUOTE] ok, this is the second time in this thread that someone has referred to a “jumper” as being an alternative to a skirt. I’d thought I was familiar with most of the common cross-Pacific translation issues, but this one has me stumped. Round here, a jumper is a knitted creation made out of wool that you wear on your top half. You wear it _with_ a skirt (in winter), not instead of. So what do you guys mean by the word? ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/42 "2008-05-16T00:20:33Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Contrary data point: The Catholic school in the town where I grew up had solid blue skirts for the girls. [/QUOTE] The school I attended had Navy blue jumpers for grades 1-6, Navy skirts for grades 7-8, all boys wore Navy blue slacks, and all of us wore white shirts/blouses. And saddle shoes or brown oxfords. A [jumper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumper_dress) is a shift-like dress under which one wears a blouse. This was during the 60s - no idea what/if they wear uniforms there now. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/43 "2008-05-16T00:39:06Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] I imagine it would also be easier to create a dress code when everyone is wearing pretty much the same thing. [/QUOTE] Easy to create; hard to enforce. I was at a (public) school where we had about 3 colors of slacks/skirts and 4 colors of polo/collared shirts the kids could pick from. Someone always found a color that wasn’t quite right :dubious: :smack: . And sometimes it was definitely rebellion. The rule was, “shirts must be tucked in” and of course some didn’t want to do that. We’d stop them, make them tuck in, and 5 minutes later they’d be untucked again. I have no doubt that if the rule was “Shirts must NOT be tucked in,” we would have had the same rebels. Reasons I’ve heard for uniforms: 1a) Removes “class” distinctions…kids aren’t allowed to wear logos etc. that show how much money their family has. 1b) Parents don’t buy as many clothes b/c if you wash and wear, nobody can distinguish the fact that you wore same yesterday. 1. Removes “gang colors” from schools. I think ultimately, especially in foreign countries, it’s about suppressing individuality. Dress is one way kids express themselves and from totalitarian regimes right on down to conservative communities here, we’re letting them know that “the man” is in charge, not them. It’s little wonder that armies etc. have uniforms: they’re all about conformity. ---
**Author:** ![bubble\_pop\_electric](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecae2f/32.png) [@bubble\_pop\_electric](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubble_pop_electric)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/44 "2008-05-16T00:57:23Z")
[QUOTE=Aspidistra] ok, this is the second time in this thread that someone has referred to a “jumper” as being an alternative to a skirt. I’d thought I was familiar with most of the common cross-Pacific translation issues, but this one has me stumped. Round here, a jumper is a knitted creation made out of wool that you wear on your top half. You wear it _with_ a skirt (in winter), not instead of. So what do you guys mean by the word? [/QUOTE] [This](http://www.landsend.com/pp/UniformSidePleatPlaidBlendedJumper~171678_1187.html?bcc=y&action=order_more&sku_0=::EVP&CM_MERCH=IDX_00013__0000000688&origin=index) is a jumper. When I was in Catholic school, girls under 3rd grade wore jumpers, and older girls wore the plaid skirt and white blouse. Maroon all around. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/45 "2008-05-16T00:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=FairyChatMom] The school I attended had Navy blue jumpers for grades 1-6, Navy skirts for grades 7-8, all boys wore Navy blue slacks, and all of us wore white shirts/blouses. And saddle shoes or brown oxfords. A [jumper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumper_dress) is a shift-like dress under which one wears a blouse. This was during the 60s - no idea what/if they wear uniforms there now. [/QUOTE] ‘Jumper’ in British usage will be a sweater/pullover, and a very common part of a school uniform. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/46 "2008-05-16T01:32:34Z")
From etymonline: 1853, apparently from 17c. jump “short coat,” also “woman’s under bodice,” of uncertain origin, perhaps from Fr. jupe “skirt,” which is ult. from Ar. jubbah “loose outer garment.” Meaning “sleeveless dress worn over a blouse” first recorded Amer.Eng. 1939. > **[jumper | Search Online Etymology Dictionary](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=jumper)** > > The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible... ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/47 "2008-05-16T02:24:51Z")
There are several Catholic girls’ schools near my place. Their skirts are not plaid. Just plain blue. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/48 "2008-05-16T05:16:44Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Since it doesn’t seem a definitive answer is likely to be forthcoming at this point, and we have mainly entered the realm of anecdote and opinion, perhaps a move to IMHO is in order. Colibri General Questions Moderator [/QUOTE] Well, you’re the boss around here, so do what you want. I still think there must be a factual answer to this factual question. (Or maybe fighting ignorance has become a thing of the past.–that is, somebody’s getting lazy.) ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/49 "2008-05-16T05:54:41Z")
[QUOTE=Green Bean] I think **sugar and spice** ’s WAG is probably pretty close to the truth: [/QUOTE] Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I don’t think there is a factual answer to the OP’s question, since it’s already been established that there are schools without plaid uniforms. Besides, plaid uniforms aren’t limited to Catholic schools anyway. Upon reflection, there aren’t a lot of patterns you can use for uniforms and not have them look too casual, other than solid colors and plaids. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/50 "2008-05-16T07:18:53Z")
[QUOTE=bubble pop electric] [This](http://www.landsend.com/pp/UniformSidePleatPlaidBlendedJumper~171678_1187.html?bcc=y&action=order_more&sku_0=::EVP&CM_MERCH=IDX_00013__0000000688&origin=index) is a jumper. When I was in Catholic school, girls under 3rd grade wore jumpers, and older girls wore the plaid skirt and white blouse. Maroon all around. [/QUOTE] I am informed (being a male) that that is what we wold term a “pinnafore”. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/51 "2008-05-16T07:27:40Z")
Yep, definitely a pinafore. Jumpers have sleeves. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/52 "2008-05-16T07:35:21Z")
[QUOTE=Cunctator] Yep, definitely a pinafore. Jumpers have sleeves. [/QUOTE] Yes, absolutely. So… I guess the well-known primary school joke “what do you get when you cross a kangaroo with a sheep”\* would meet with a resounding chorus of blank stares in the US… 😉 \*A woolly jumper ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/53 "2008-05-16T08:49:54Z")
There are four “basic” versions for schools with uniforms in Spain, more-or-less by how common they are: white-background plaid; navy blue; grey; red-background plaid. All shaped similarly to a kilt, with the flap on the front. Length varies greatly, I was used to “just above the knee” or “just below” as the acceptable options, but around Bilbao I’ve seen skirts barely long enough to sit on. Why these particular patterns and no others, no idea beyond “in towns with less than five uniformed schools, their uniforms will all have different skirts.” The rest of the uniform has a 99%+ probability of being navy-or-black shoes, navy socks, navy V-neck vest-jacket-(uhm… what’s the other option called in English? I know you don’t call it “jersey”), white shirt-blouse. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/54 "2008-05-16T10:35:53Z")
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee] Upon reflection, there aren’t a lot of patterns you can use for uniforms and not have them look too casual, other than solid colors and plaids. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure what ‘too casual’ means. Many schools here have a uniform which, in warm weather, will simply consist of a particular polo shirt with a school symbol or shield printed or embroidered on, black trousers/skirt & shoes. Fairly casual, inexpensive, and fulfulling all the objectives of a uniform (equality, community identity etc.) to the same extent as other options. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/55 "2008-05-16T11:10:58Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] (uhm… what’s the other option called in English? I know you don’t call it “jersey”), white shirt-blouse. [/QUOTE] For the boys, people used to call it “jersey,” but now I think most call it a “polo shirt,” or a “lacrosse” shirt. (That’s what the anti-gang school uniforms have–imagine that, South Central kids playing polo or lacrosse…) The term “jersey,” though, now typically refers to the uniform shirt of a sports team. And I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with New Jersey (U.S.), but rather one of the Channel Isles. (The [English](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vrchannelislands.com/daily-images/6619-jersey1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.vrchannelislands.com/spanish.php&h=210&w=920&sz=56&tbnid=4Ta3XTArF20J:&tbnh=34&tbnw=147&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522English%2BChannel%2BIslands%2522%252B%2522photos%2522&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=3)Channel Isles, not the [California Channel Isles](http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/Photography/Images/POD/c/channel-islands-509292-lw.jpg).) ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/56 "2008-05-16T11:39:29Z")
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee] Upon reflection, there aren’t a lot of patterns you can use for uniforms and not have them look too casual, other than solid colors and plaids. [/QUOTE] But that’s exactly the idea at LA Unified middle schools. They _want_ them to look casual. Anything with “school colors” or something regimented would probably cause some resentment amongst the students. Usually it’s something like blue bottoms and white tops. But the kids are roughly free to choose the brand, etc. The only hard and fast rule is no pants sagging for the boys and no “revealing” things for the girls. There’s no particular company they have to go to, but there are various stores that specifically cater to this need. BTW, each middle school’s parents decide if they want to have “uniforms” (uniformity) separately. It’s a PTA kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![lunar\_elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lunar\_elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lunar_elf)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/57 "2008-05-16T12:15:49Z")
I went to catholic school in K-8th grade. In first grade I believe is when the school decided to get uniforms. It was a blue plaid and it was made into every piece of clothing imaginable. Jumpers (it looked like the ones above, but the chest was split down the middle), skirts, skorts, shorts and pants. Oddly enough we didn’t have uniforms for gym. It was amazing how dirty they’d get, but you’d hardly notice it. My mom made a quilt out of the pieces after I was done with school - I think it got ‘lost’ over the years! /oops 😃 Shopping for uniforms was an experience itself. There was a uniform shop on the top of Mount Washington in Pittsburgh, PA and when you went into this tiny shop there were stuffed toy monkeys EVERYWHERE! Small ones, big ones, picture of monkeys too. You’d go into the closet sized dressing room and there were monkeys in your face. I think I bought the biggest sizes available, just so I wouldn’t have to go back there. /shiver Of course wearing a uniform for 8ish years, I was a total fashion noob when I got to public high school. I think by the time I was a junior I finally figured out how to dress/not dress, but then again it was the early 90s and I couldn’t compete with all the kids that wanted to dress like the 90210 kids. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/58 "2008-05-16T12:30:21Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] For the boys, people used to call it “jersey,” but now I think most call it a “polo shirt,” or a “lacrosse” shirt. (That’s what the anti-gang school uniforms have–imagine that, South Central kids playing polo or lacrosse…) The term “jersey,” though, now typically refers to the uniform shirt of a sports team. And I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with New Jersey (U.S.), but rather one of the Channel Isles. (The [English](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vrchannelislands.com/daily-images/6619-jersey1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.vrchannelislands.com/spanish.php&h=210&w=920&sz=56&tbnid=4Ta3XTArF20J:&tbnh=34&tbnw=147&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522English%2BChannel%2BIslands%2522%252B%2522photos%2522&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=3)Channel Isles, not the [California Channel Isles](http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/Photography/Images/POD/c/channel-islands-509292-lw.jpg).) [/QUOTE] Nah, it’s not a shirt, it’s woolen and goes over a shirt. From the discussion on page 1, it appears that the Brits call it jumper. Wonder why they never teach your these important things in language school! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/59 "2008-05-16T12:30:26Z")
[QUOTE=lunar elf] I think by the time I was a junior I finally figured out how to dress/not dress, but then again it was the early 90s and I couldn’t compete with all the kids that wanted to dress like the 90210 kids. [/QUOTE] Ironic, that. Most of my classmates in the early '90s were into schoolgirl chic a la _The Craft_ and _Clueless_. Your old school uniforms would have been…what was the phrase?..way cool. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-catholic-school-girls-have-to-wear-plaid-skirts/449427/60 "2008-05-16T12:41:29Z")
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