# Why do cavemen have such poor grammar? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 13, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342 "2008-07-13T17:12:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/1 "2008-07-13T17:12:15Z")
Depicted on television, cavemen tend to have poor English skills saying stuff like, “Me Grimlock angry!” Okay, that’s actually from Transformers, but it’s the same concept. What’s the purpose of dumbing down their language abilities? Was it to imply that the cavemen had primitive language skills? When did writers start doing this? ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/2 "2008-07-13T17:23:16Z")
What would be the alternative? Conversing in fluent English? Then it wouldn’t be nearly as funny. Just look at Fred Flintstone. Not funny in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/3 "2008-07-13T17:27:42Z")
People tend to assume that those who don’t speak their own language must have poor language abilities. That’s been true since at least the time of the ancient Greeks, who called foreigners “barbarians.” That name was used because to the Greeks it sounded like the foreigners were saying “bah, bah, bah” when they spoke their own language. Many people think that their own language is obviously more advanced than other people’s languages. Since “cavemen” were supposed to be early humans, people assume that they speak primitive languages. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/4 "2008-07-13T17:31:59Z")
It would seem strange to have someone who’s depicted as primitive in every other way–culturally, techologically and sometimes even anatomically–to speak eloquently. The reason it doesn’t seem strange in _The Flintstones_ is because they actually live modern lives, even if all their stuff is made of rock. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/5 "2008-07-13T17:37:21Z")
It’s an accurate reflection of the facts. Our records show that the Neanderthal educational system was somewhat lacking in many respects. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/6 "2008-07-13T17:38:41Z")
[QUOTE=BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed] What would be the alternative? Conversing in fluent English? Then it wouldn’t be nearly as funny. Just look at Fred Flintstone. Not funny in the slightest. [/QUOTE] Ahem. GEICO cavemen. OK, the show sucked, but the original commercials were mostly considered hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/7 "2008-07-13T18:14:11Z")
“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I’m just a caveman.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/8 "2008-07-13T18:21:35Z")
I recall a Gahan Wilson cartoon, two beetle-browed cavemen talking while tearing at meat. Caption: “Sorry I’m not making myself clearer, but it’s difficult to express oneself in a language as crude and primitive as ours.” ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/9 "2008-07-13T18:48:49Z")
Trog not know what you talk about. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/10 "2008-07-13T19:10:38Z")
Talk rule men no strong. No strong no hunt. No hunt no eat. Grak strong, eat good. No talk argue. Argue no kill mammoth. Talk rule bring argue. Argue bring big cat. Big cat claw teeth eat Grak. Grak no want talk rule. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/11 "2008-07-13T19:42:27Z")
Grammar’s savings ate up by medical bills. Primitive cave society have no health care safety net for elderly. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/12 "2008-07-13T20:48:06Z")
[QUOTE=El\_Kabong] It’s an accurate reflection of the facts. Our records show that the Neanderthal educational system was somewhat lacking in many respects. 😃 [/QUOTE] They had an excellent Physical Education programme. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/13 "2008-07-13T20:54:34Z")
Seriously, humans are the only primates with true language. At some point in human evolution it had to have developed. Exactly how is hotly contested; but surely at some point our ancestors must have had some vocalization more advanced than ape cries but not as sophisticated as modern human language. That said, the stereotypical “caveman” is a cliche based on naive early theories about primitive humans. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/14 "2008-07-13T21:03:37Z")
I wonder if anyone has any idea what caveman-language actually sounded like in real life? Have any studies been done to try to figure this out? I can’t imagine that it would even be possible, so I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/15 "2008-07-13T22:25:45Z")
It’s kind of funny when they do it in a humorous context, but it’s strange when they do it seriously. I watched 10,000 BC last night and they did this. Yeah, primitive languages probably didn’t have a lot of complex words, but that doesn’t mean they have to make grammar mistakes. It just makes it seem like English wasn’t their primary language. (Of course the English language isn’t that old anyway, but it was their language in the movie.) ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/16 "2008-07-13T22:28:16Z")
I believe all cavemen ( Yes, even the foreign ones!) actually spoke with Scottish accents! ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/17 "2008-07-13T22:45:12Z")
[QUOTE=snailboy] It’s kind of funny when they do it in a humorous context, but it’s strange when they do it seriously. I watched 10,000 BC last night and they did this. Yeah, primitive languages probably didn’t have a lot of complex words, but that doesn’t mean they have to make grammar mistakes. It just makes it seem like English wasn’t their primary language. (Of course the English language isn’t that old anyway, but it was their language in the movie.) [/QUOTE] I haven’t seen the movie, but maybe the idea is just that a primitive language wouldn’t _have_ much in the way of grammar. If you don’t have pronouns, articles, different tenses or moods, and such, “Og smash rock” is the way you’d talk. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/18 "2008-07-13T23:22:36Z")
It’s odd to think of it as “poor grammar/English skills”, as though they’re trying to speak a modern variety of English but failing; clearly, in their own hypothetical language, “Og smash rock” is perfectly grammatical. Though that fictional-caveman-English should function like that is odd in itself, but others have addressed that point. Anyway, seems to me one might as well translate it all over into modern standard English, given that they’re hardly going around using words like “smash” and “rock” in the first place. What’s also a little funny is the assumption that cavemen would have names like “Og”. Why “Og”? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/19 "2008-07-13T23:28:37Z")
I believe that general consensus among linguists is that in 10,000 B.C. spoken human language was just about as complex as modern human language. Since there was no written human language, people then might have not used some of the very complex sentence forms that you hardly ever hear anyway in modern languages, although they occur occasionally in written language for experienced writers. Spoken language for most people in 10,000 B.C. was just as complex in grammar as it is for most people now. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342/20 "2008-07-13T23:35:27Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] It’s odd to think of it as “poor grammar/English skills”, as though they’re trying to speak a modern variety of English but failing; clearly, in their own hypothetical language, “Og smash rock” is perfectly grammatical. Though that fictional-caveman-English should function like that is odd in itself, but others have addressed that point. Anyway, seems to me one might as well translate it all over into modern standard English, given that they’re hardly going around using words like “smash” and “rock” in the first place. What’s also a little funny is the assumption that cavemen would have names like “Og”. Why “Og”? [/QUOTE] Monosyllables appear to be a popular presumption. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-cavemen-have-such-poor-grammar/456342.md?page=2)