# Why do certain popular chain restaurants not expand past a certain point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632 "2007-09-18T18:16:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/61 "2007-09-20T23:42:31Z")
Is Chick Fil A the one that’s closed on Sunday so you all can go to church? That’s cute. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/62 "2007-09-20T23:42:44Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] Chick-Fil-A and In’N’Out Burger supposedly both print Bible verses on some of their paper items like drink cups or french fry holders. [/QUOTE] [True, at least in the case of In’N’Out.](http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/inandout.asp) But they don’t print the whole verse, just the notation, i.e., **John 3:16** ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/63 "2007-09-21T00:22:23Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] . I worked at McD’s approx 13 years ago, and we certainly had a grill. Is this no longer the case then? -FrL- [/QUOTE] Sorry if my post was confusing. Our burgers came in pre-packaged, frozen, and pre-cooked (probably to a rare-mediumrare state) We threw those on the grill and got them to a mediumwell-well state, and then they went into the warmer. Now during regular lunch and dinner hours, these were fine. During those times, the warmer was hardly used. And an hour before or after the warmers were used as they should have been. But come in at 10:17pm and get the salmonella burger…😉 ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/64 "2007-09-21T00:51:20Z")
I do suspect they’ve skipped the grill step, but soon I’ll go by and order a burger so I can watch. It won’t be easy to see, because the kitchen area is (purposely?) pretty well hidden. I got a burger a couple weeks ago and ordered plain with no condiments at all. Dry. The manager came over and seemed a little reluctant to sell it that way. After I took the patty out and tasted it, I could see why. It was tasteless. There was none of the carmelization you usually get when you fry meat. It wasn’t at all browned. To be fair, I’ll go tomorrow, and report back. ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/65 "2007-09-21T03:44:04Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] I do suspect they’ve skipped the grill step, but soon I’ll go by and order a burger so I can watch. It won’t be easy to see, because the kitchen area is (purposely?) pretty well hidden. I got a burger a couple weeks ago and ordered plain with no condiments at all. Dry. The manager came over and seemed a little reluctant to sell it that way. After I took the patty out and tasted it, I could see why. It was tasteless. There was none of the carmelization you usually get when you fry meat. It wasn’t at all browned. [/QUOTE] You have an unusually odd restaurant manager there. In 30 years of ordering plain burgers at McD’s I have never had any employee reluctant to do it that way or confused as to why I ordered it like that. Except in Budapest. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/66 "2007-09-21T04:17:04Z")
[QUOTE=Neptunian Slug] You have an unusually odd restaurant manager there. In 30 years of ordering plain burgers at McD’s I have never had any employee reluctant to do it that way or confused as to why I ordered it like that. Except in Budapest. [/QUOTE] Well, I wouldn’t say she’s odd. She is kinda short, though. Anyway, she didn’t challenge me or anything like that. She said “Plain?” I said “yes”. She came back with “No pickle, no onion, no catsup, just bun and meat?” “That’s right” I answered. “Okay, no problem”. Maybe she noticed me craning my neck trying to see in the back. I dunno. I don’t usually order like that. But I don’t go there very often, either. When I pulled the patty out of the bun and munched on that, she gave me a rolleye look without actually rolling her eyes. I did make sure she was looking. 😛 You can see her for yourself if you go to the Mcdonald’s on San Pablo ave in Berkeley/Albany CA. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/67 "2007-09-21T05:21:51Z")
[QUOTE=wevets] In N Out has expanded a lot in the last 10-15 years. I remember when the only In N Out in the SF Bay Area was in Milpitas or Fremont or someplace like that, now they’re all over, as well as in Nevada and Arizona, as someone already mentioned. [/QUOTE] Not all that many outside California: Fourteen in Arizona (9 in the Phoenix metro area and one each in five other towns) and six in Nevada. Another factor is that they ship only fresh patties, in their own trucks, from one location. [Cite](http://www.in-n-out.com/freshness.asp). To get much further east they’d either have to start shipping frozen patties or build another facility closer to hand. ETA Drat: Missed **Cardinal** ’s post saying essentially the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/68 "2007-09-21T19:53:37Z")
McDonald’s burgers are pre-partially cooked, to reduce the cook time at the restaurant, then frozen and shipped. They are then fried on a flat frying surface, at which time they are also seasoned. They are then transferred by the burger cook to a tray, which is then placed into a slot in a warmer next to the burger assembly station. When a burger is ordered, or, during rush periods, on a pre-order basis, then a bun (pre-warmed) is taken from the bun warmer, and the meat patty (or patties) is taken from the hold warm tray. I actually like McD’s burgers for their seasoning. BK, CJ’s, Hardee’s, etc. do not season their burgers, because they are put on an open flame broiler. That makes them more bland tasting, though in the case of CJ’s, at least, the burger choices are made more palatable through the usual condiments used. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/69 "2007-09-26T09:40:35Z")
I was in some city back east and all I found was boarded up White Castles. I want to say St. Paul/Minneapolis, but I see from their website that there are still stores there. I wish they would come to California, but it ain’t going to happen. It seems like they are in contraction, not expansion mode. ☹☹☹ I just read an article about how El Pollo Loco is looking to expand out of the southwest and into the south. They are pitching their chicken as a healthy alternative to fried. So it does happen! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/70 "2007-09-26T14:33:18Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] In the Midwest, Dunkin Donuts is all but unknown. I have not seen one since I moved from New Jersey, except for the occasions that I visited the East Coast. [/QUOTE] I guess it depends on what you mean by Midwest. When I was growing up in Ohio, Dunkin’ Donuts was pretty much the only chain doughnut store and the only one that advertised on television. Has Dunkin’ Donuts really fallen that far? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/71 "2007-09-26T14:35:03Z")
[QUOTE=Joey P] Sonic advertises in Milwaukee as well. [/QUOTE] I’ve always been under the impression that Sonic and Rally’s are the same chain. Is that wrong? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/72 "2007-09-26T15:00:59Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] I guess it depends on what you mean by Midwest. When I was growing up in Ohio, Dunkin’ Donuts was pretty much the only chain doughnut store and the only one that advertised on television. Has Dunkin’ Donuts really fallen that far? [/QUOTE] Midwest=Chicago. Back east=Anywhere east of California. Actually, the Central Valley of CA is back east.. Seriously though, I remember fron way back in the day that DD donuts were really good. The best filled ones anywhere. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/73 "2007-09-26T15:16:26Z")
I know we are mostly talking about Fast Food chains, but I actually exchanged several Emails with The Soup Plantation/Sweet Tomatoes begging for them to add a location in Central Jersey. (Of course stressing what a perfect location my town would make 😉 ). I loved the Soup Plantations in San Diego when I lived there. Last time I visited SD I visited the Soup Plantation and last time we went to Orlando, we tracked down the Sweet Tomatoes there. I learned from the Dope that Sweet Tomatoes is the same chain. I still love the place. So far, there is no restaurant closer than Illinois or North Carolina. Worse yet the NC ones are not even near Rt. 95. They are all in Raleigh. Chicago has at least one. Anyway, the kind person from Soup Plantation/Sweet Tomatoes explained that they don’t have a distribution center near NYC/NJ yet and that the region is costly to break into. She did say that they plan to expand up to the DC Baltimore region in the future and if that went well NYC/NJ/Philly would then follow. I am still waiting for the DC area on to open. Jim ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/74 "2007-09-26T16:38:27Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] I’ve always been under the impression that Sonic and Rally’s are the same chain. Is that wrong? [/QUOTE] They are not the same chain. [Checker’s/Rally’s](http://www.checkers.com/). [Sonic](http://www.sonicdrivein.com/index.jsp) ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/75 "2007-09-27T00:00:57Z")
Since someone mentioned Dunkin Donuts, it seems like they are trying to enter the west coast market. Their acquisition by Bain Capital has actually led to a pretty significant expansion in SE PA. [Dunkin’ Donuts brewing West Coast expansion plans](http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2007/09/24/story6.html?b=1190606400%5E1523061) ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632/76 "2007-09-27T00:13:33Z")
[QUOTE=Neptunian Slug] Since someone mentioned Dunkin Donuts, it seems like they are trying to enter the west coast market. Their acquisition by Bain Capital has actually led to a pretty significant expansion in SE PA. [Dunkin’ Donuts brewing West Coast expansion plans](http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2007/09/24/story6.html?b=1190606400%5E1523061) [/QUOTE] WooHoo! Gimme a chocolate bismark. Now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-certain-popular-chain-restaurants-not-expand-past-a-certain-point/419632.md?page=3)