Bilgerat, I think it was that regnad kcin’s co-workers were unable to pronounce their adapted American names. I’m the one who cannot pronounce his own name correctly when speaking in another language.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by andy_fl *
Only anecdotal evidence here, but I have come across many chinese people (living in the US) who have “American” names.
I have seen this especially wrt Chinese and much less so for people from other nations. Obviously, it is more convinient to have an American sounding name, but I then why is it that the Chinese are more likely to do so ?/QUOTE]
To be localised, so to speak. Do you know that expats here get Chinese names? It goes both ways.
Semi-related, my grandparents named all their kids American names when they moved here, because they wanted them to be Americans, a big deal to them, carrying all the raised opportunity it meant when they moved here. They also raised them all to only speak English. This is coming from Mexico, and has culturally fallen out of use as the hispanic culture in the southwest exploded out since they moved here, but nonetheless…
On the other hand, when I am speaking in Russian, I use a different name because my given name is too “complicated” in Russian. I find it easier to use something that fits easier. Well, I also hate my given name, but that’s beside the point. 
I think you all are giving the “immigrant wanting to fit into society” theory a little too much credit. Fluency in English is a big status symbol in most of Asia–at least, in the Greater China/Overseas Chinese community that spans the entire Pacific Rim. A Taiwanese businessman has a little more face when negotiating with his (say) South Korean partner if he comes across as a worldly English-speaking fellow, and an English name adds to that. It has very little to do with immigration, as far as I’ve ever been able to tell.
(Nowadays in Taiwan, a lot of parents give their kids English names practically from birth.)
Another thing–I’ve been told that Japanese are typically atrocious at trying to pronounce Chinese names (and generally atrocious at trying to pronounce any foreign language, really). I’ve known some Chinese working with Japanese who deliberately adopted English names in order to make it easier for them.
As a Chinese speaker, I can definately tell you that Chinese has “r”, and it pretty close to the pronunciation of the letter in American English. Common terms like “dang ran” (of course) “rongyi” (easy) and “erduo” (ear) all include “r.” Speakers from Beijing are infamous for putting an r into many words, many “yi dian” (“a little”) “yi dianr” and “shang tou” (on top) “sharng tou”.
Because this “r” sound is quite similar to the sound in American English, the racist stereotype that all Chinese mangle r’s and l’s forming words like “flied lice” is quite inaccurate.
UnuMondo
Chinese people in Hong Kong regularly take Western names. I’m sure it began as convenience for dealing with unlinguistic Westerners, but has become a trend.
The name is used thus: Western name Family name Chinese name. E.g. James Chan Man Ying
They often choose a Western name for themselves in adolescence, which occasionally leads to some odd choices: “Andeley” was a popular one when I lived there (which was the bastardized spelling of “Andrew” by Andeley Chan, a well known triad who was gunned down in Macau). Lots of teenage boys chose this. I have a friend who calls herself Canary, and I also met a Creamy Cheung, and a Twinkle Ling. There are also reports of a Winky Wong, Murder Chan, Stalin Yeung, and Benweird Ma.
UnuMondo, I agree that there is an exageration but the Chinese r is not pronounced like an English r but more like halfway between R and L and so it is natural that we hear it as an L. Note that the stereotype also exists in other languages, so it is not like it is made up. Conversely, it is not easy for a foreigner to correctly pronounce the chinese R because we have no sound like it. I still remember one of the first words I had difficulty with was renmin (people) because it is everywhere in China. The people’s this, the people’s that, etc.
And to add to the thread: I also use a Chinese nickname when I am in China because it is easier for them to pronounce.
Sometimes different people pronounced my chinese name differently when I lived in England.
Uno, I never said that Chinese didnt have an R sound, but that it didnt have the letter “R”.
I was refuting someone who had posted that Japanes had R but not L and Chinese had L but not R. My point was that L and R are approximations, especially when dealing with languages that dont use the Roman alphabet.
In fact I said in an earlier post that, in my experience as an ESL instructor, Chinese people have less difficulty with the American “R” than most Europeans.
Let me also say that I find the letter “R” to be a really weird letter. Many western languages consistently transform one sound into another sound (B to V, T to TH(theta), K to G etc etc) and change the spelling to match. But the letter R seems to represent so many different sounds, yet consistently keeps its written representation. When French, Italian, Brazilian, German, and American people see “R” they think something different, whereas when these same people see “M” or “T” or “F” they think pretty much the same thing.
Just ask a Frenchman, and Italian, a Brazilian, a German, and an American to pronounce the Brazilian city “Rio” for example.
Or maybe Im just reading too much into this.
In some Asian countries, when a Chinese became a Christian he may got a Christian (aka ‘Western’) name from his pastor. That how I got mine.
Second, during the last decade or so the ‘international language’ was English. To able to trade with the western countries a lot of Chineses have to learnt English and probably see the merits of getting a western name. I also agree with the idea of ‘fitting in’ and it is easier for westerners to recall and to pronounce western name. (I remember the days when a New Zealand lecturer was tutoring my class. He got most of our names wrong!)
Third, it is easier to remember and somehow look more ‘professional’ on paper. I once was one of the sales representives of an e-learning course. I put my Chinese name on the brochure and the other put his Western name. Guess what? He got all the calls and I got none…so there went my comission.
Fourth, it is something akin to “fashion”. Most of our Chinese elders here attribute it to the “Following western trends”. On top of the fact that many Chinese families here are English educated, so they probably got western names right from birth (especially among Chinese Christians here. ‘Here’, incidentally, means Singapore)
Hope this helped…
The Chinese languages are tonal languages. The same syllable, pronounced in slightly different tones, can mean several different things. Westerners, as a rule, are entirely tone-deaf to these subtleties, because a change in tone in a Western language does not change the literal meaning of a word.
I suppose that some Chinese immigrants adopt Western-language nicknames because a name meaning “Pear Blossom” might come out “Toilet Brush” when spoken by a tone-deaf Westerner. (Not an actual example, just illustrative.)
Once I asked a friend from China why he’d chosen “Jeff” as his American name. It didn’t sound even vaguely like his original name. He responded with an answer as old as Adam:
“Because I LOOK like a Jeff. Don’t I?”
And he was right. He did.
Murder is bad, other’s are just dumb. There are names such as Pinky and Queenie, and I have even seen an Idiot and a Criminal. ::ack::
There are no letters in Chinese, it is not a phonetic language. So yes, there is no letter “R” in Chinese, but it’s like saying “apple” is not a colour.
I take it you do not consider Swedish and Norwegian to be Western languages, then?
My take on the problem, based not on any personal knowledge of Japanese but rather on what I was taught about it in a phonetics/phonology course, is that the English /r/ and /l/ sounds are allophonic in Japanese. That is, both the sounds (or sounds close thereto) exist in the language, but the speakers do not differentiate between them. The situation is analogous to the english /l/ in “lip” and “call”; in each word, the /l/ sound is pronounced differently, though most people are not aware of it. If you were to pronounce “call” with the /l/ sound as found in “lip”, it might sound funny, but you would be perfectly understood since the meaning of the word does not change. English speakers might have a hard time learning or pronouncing a foreign language where the two sounds are distinct and can therefore signal a difference in word meaning.
Urban Ranger writes:
> There are no letters in Chinese, it is not a phonetic language.
> So yes, there is no letter “R” in Chinese, but it’s like
> saying “apple” is not a colour.
Um, sort of. The standard way of writing Chinese is with characters, so it’s more or less true to say that it’s not an alphabetic language. There are several ways to write Chinese with ordinary roman characters, and one of them has been chosen by the government of China as the standard way to romanize the language. It’s called Pin Yin, and many Chinese know it. (I don’t know whether a majority of the population of China know it.) Saying that Chinese is not a phonetic language makes it seem like it doesn’t use phonemes or maybe that it isn’t transmitted as sound. The only sort of language fitting that description is sign language.