# Why do 'Christian Right' Back Israels existance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 29, 2004, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035 "2004-12-29T01:21:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/21 "2004-12-29T16:21:43Z")
This Jack Chick tract gives a good bit of insight into the way evangelicals think abou this matter, althought it’s somewhat extreme even by evangelical standarrds: [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1000/1000\_01.asp](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1000/1000_01.asp) Be forewarned: If millennialism and firebreathing religious fundamentalism aren’t your cup of tea, and you’re not already familiar with Jack Chick, you might find this tract rather hard to take. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/22 "2004-12-29T16:40:14Z")
As a “right-leaning Christian type” I will offer that in my lifelong experience, the reasons are pretty much what **Abbie** said (or, more pithily,\*\* Lemur\*\*). During my theological education at a fundamentalist Bible college the “Israel must exist as a political entity for Jesus to return” idea was addressed and dismissed pretty summarily as loony extremist stuff. And with all due respect, **Lonesome** , if you’re citing Jack Chick as representative of evangelical thought, you do not know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/23 "2004-12-29T17:14:42Z")
As a former Rapturist & a long-time C’tian Rightist, I can only give the reasons I support Israel. They are God’s original Chosen People, who still bear a mission & a calling, even though they have for the most part rejected Jesus as Messiah. The greatest shame of we who accept Jesus has been the historical mistreatment of the Jews by the Church based on a comibation of bad theology, an overreaction to the Judaizing heresy by adopting the opposite extreme, and basic onery Gentile resentment of the Jews’ chosenness. In supporting Israel, we C’tians do reparation for the sins of our past. We also hope for the eventual realization among the Jews that Christians are their spiritual kindred & that Jesus is our common Lord & they assume their rightful place of prominence within Christendom. Whether the future brings an AntiChrist-Tribulation scenario ending with Christ’s return or a gradual overcoming of AntiChrist forces by a God-empowered truly JudeoChristian revival, the future destiny of Israel & the Church is to reconcile. On the political level- the Jews/Israel survive & thrive in spite of bad-Christian, Nazi, Soviet & Islamist attempts to crush them. She is the one representative of Western-style democracy in the Middle East (not a perfect example, but then again, neither are we). Muslims have more rights & freedoms in Israel than they do in many if not most Muslim nations. Alas, Israel has failed its to fully live up to its principles in dealing with the Palestinians, and hopefully Arafat’s passing will provide opportunity for Israeli-Palestinian peace. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/24 "2004-12-29T17:27:15Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > eventual realization among the Jews… that Jesus is our common Lord & they assume their rightful place of prominence within Christendom. Then we wouldn’t be Jews, we’d be Christians. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/25 "2004-12-29T17:30:12Z")
> [@furt](#): > > And with all due respect, **Lonesome** , if you’re citing Jack Chick as representative of evangelical thought, you do not know what you’re talking about. Oh? Is Jack Chick really that different from Pat Robertson? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/26 "2004-12-29T17:57:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh? Is Jack Chick really that different from Pat Robertson? Yep- in the Chickiverse, Pat Robertson is either a dupe or a willing pawn of the Vatican-Mystery Babylon-Charismatic conspiracy. Pat is an Old-Earth Creationist, Jack is a Young-Earther. Pat considers Catholics as fellow Christians, Jack of course does not. Pat believes Christians will go through the Tribulation. Jack believes we will be Raptured out (tho Jack considers fewer people to be true C’tians than Pat does). Pat’s said more than enough stupid crazy things, but not much that comes near the Chick level. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/27 "2004-12-29T18:04:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh? Is Jack Chick really that different from Pat Robertson? If you put a pig in pearls, it’s still a pig, and the pearls get dirty… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/28 "2004-12-29T19:03:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Excuse me, are you my Sock Puppet, or is this a transporter accident thing? Great Dopers think alike? 😃 I don’t think anyone is saying that ALL Christian right-wingers support Israel purely out of self-interest and not because it’s the right thing to do. But I would say that many do, and many of them are damned scary. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/29 "2004-12-29T19:11:19Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Then we wouldn’t be Jews, we’d be Christians. > 🙂 I think the Christians are okay with that… re: **Why would the Christian Right advocate the existance of Israel?** Couldn’t it be that whole turn-the-other-cheek thing? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/30 "2004-12-29T19:13:43Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Couldn’t it be that whole turn-the-other-cheek thing? No, it couldn’t – because that principle would provide no basis for preferring the Israelis to the Palestinians, or supporting the one as against the other. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/31 "2004-12-29T19:17:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, it couldn’t – because that principle would provide no basis for preferring the Israelis to the Palestinians, or supporting the one as against the other. Besides, most of mainstream Christianity (and the far-Right nutjob sects) have given up on that turn-the-other-cheek, meek-will-inherit-the-earth thing, except when it’s pretty much a meaningless or non-threatening situation. The only ones I can think of which, as a group, retain it in actual practice (rather than lip service) are the Friends, the Adventists and a few others (look up which Christian denominations can take Conscientious Objector status without a major fight on the part of the military). ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/32 "2004-12-29T19:31:41Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Israel existing won’t make Jesus come back any faster: if it did, we would have been out of here in 1948. There are specific things set forth in the Bible that talk about what has to happen before he returns. Israel being a nation again was just one of them. Somewhat ominously, some of the more radical minded christians think that another prerequisite for the end times is that the jews have to retake the Temple Mount (the word “zion” in its most literal sense, means the temple mount itself, not the country of Israel) and rebuild a third temple on the site currently occupied by the Dome of the Rock. I read an article a few years ago (in Wired, I think), that detailed some of the more interesting ways people have attempted to fulfill this. Things like making a holographic image of a temple around the Dome of the Rock, or making a Sims inspired virtual temple on the internet. Of course thats just the lunitic fringe. Most christians just want the jews in Israel because they thats where the bible says they should be. Or as **Abbie** says, because they feel a sense of shared history. Still, the idea that some Christian or Jewish fundementalist will blow the Dome of the Rock to smitherenes to try and facilitate the building of a literal third temple is quite frightening. Might be a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy, so far as triggering the end of the world goes, as it would almost certainly start a fairly ugly war. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/33 "2004-12-29T20:13:29Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > Still, the idea that some Christian or Jewish fundementalist will blow the Dome of the Rock I just read about such an attempt in _From Beruit to Jerusalem_. Some Israeli guys were caught before they made the bomb, but after they’d killed some Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/34 "2004-12-29T21:31:53Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Then we wouldn’t be Jews, we’d be Christians. > 🙂 No, you’d be Messianic Jews. Which, actually, are sort of Christians, except that they’re Jewish… um, what was I saying? Never mind. Go on about your thread. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/35 "2004-12-29T21:52:58Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > Somewhat ominously, some of the more radical minded christians think that another prerequisite for the end times is that the jews have to retake the Temple Mount (the word “zion” in its most literal sense, means the temple mount itself, not the country of Israel) and rebuild a third temple on the site currently occupied by the Dome of the Rock. Where did you get an idea like that? I’ve never heard this theory, and if there are Christians out there who do believe this, they are too few in number to be significant. Biblical prophecy makes it clear that the next temple will be built by the Antichrist as a means of getting on the Jews’ good side and “proving” he’s the Messiah. Before he starts slaughtering them and everyone else who refuses to worship him, that is. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/36 "2004-12-29T22:50:08Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Biblical prophecy makes it clear… _dies laughing at this_ If Biblical prophecy actually made _anything_ clear, we’d all be Christians and the kingdom would have already come. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/37 "2004-12-29T22:51:18Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Where did you get an idea like that? I’ve never heard this theory, and if there are Christians out there who do believe this, they are too few in number to be significant. > > Biblical prophecy makes it clear that the next temple will be built by the Antichrist as a means of getting on the Jews’ good side and “proving” he’s the Messiah. Before he starts slaughtering them and everyone else who refuses to worship him, that is. Well, wouldn’t that make a new temple a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Christ? Assuming the Antichrist has to come before Christ does. Anyway, here’s a bit from the Wikipedia, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple\_in\_Jerusalem:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_in_Jerusalem:) > [@](#): > > **Christian views** > > Many fundamentalist and evangelical Christian groups, especially those who follow a dispensationalist theology, believe that the Jewish people will build the Third Temple shortly before, or perhaps after, “true” Christians have been raptured, and just before the introduction of a popularly accepted messiah-figure. However, according to this view, this messiah-figure would not be a true messiah but rather what Christians call the Antichrist. > > However, in contrast to this dominant view, many evangelicals believe that in addition to this Third Temple, the Millennial Temple prophesied by Ezekiel will also be built. According to that view, while the so-called Antichrist will put an end to the sacrificial system during the Tribulation (Dan. 9:27, 11:31, 12:11), the arrival of the true Messiah will inaugurate the building of Ezekiel’s Temple (see Ezekiel 40-44). This view holds that the Prince of Israel (the human descendant of David who will rule in the Kingdom) will provide the regular sacrifices (Ezek. 45:17), including sin offerings for himself and the people (Ezek. 45:22). In this view the Prince of Israel is parallel in many ways to the hoped-for messiah of traditional Judaism. Also, this view (like Orthodox Judaism) looks for and encourages both the rebuilding of the Third Temple and the resumption of animal sacrifices. > > The dominant view within Protestant Christianity, however, rejects these views of the value of any future temples. It holds that since Jesus died as the final sacrifice for sin, all such prophecies about a future temple and restored sacrificial system have been annulled and transformed into an illustration of spiritual realities. So in terms of a rebuilt temple and restored sacrificial system, their view has much in common with Conservative and Reform Judaism, though for very different reasons. The evangelicals who do believe in Ezekiel’s Temple respond that God’s prophecies cannot be negated or annulled (for that would turn them into a lie); that the sacrificial system does not compete with Jesus’ atonement for sin, but is a ceremonial object lesson for confession and forgiveness (somewhat like water baptism and Communion are today); and that such animal sacrifices would still be appropriate for ritual cleansing and for acts of celebration and thanksgiving toward God. See also [http://etori.tripod.com/dajjalsystem/dnn-thirdtemple.html](http://etori.tripod.com/dajjalsystem/dnn-thirdtemple.html). ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/38 "2004-12-29T23:18:58Z")
I hate to say it but I think you guys are missing an important aspect. Jews generally have the same color skin as Christians. Unfortunately that means a great deal in our world. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/39 "2004-12-30T00:10:19Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Where did you get an idea like that? I’ve never heard this theory, and if there are Christians out there who do believe this, they are too few in number to be significant. True, but it would only take a small group of them to attempt to blow up the Dome of the Rock. Just like it only took a few to fly into the twin towers and the Pentagon on September 11. Look, I agree that people should support Israel-they are there, they are a nation, and it’s the right thing to do. (I also think the Palestinians should be supported as well). But while these people may be in the minority, they are a large scary, militant minority and because they’re so wacko, they get a lot of attention. That’s not a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035/40 "2004-12-30T00:45:53Z")
Frankly I see these two groups being more similar than dissimilar. Don’t both beliefs parallel each other up until you get to the New Testament? I know that’s a vast simplification, but basically true? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christian-right-back-israels-existance/282035.md?page=3)