# Why do Christians — America’s most populous religious group — feel so victimized? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 31, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012 "2014-03-31T18:53:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/1 "2014-03-31T18:53:22Z")
Here are some excerpts from a recently published opinion piece by Chase Madar, an attorney in New York and the author of “The Passion of [Chelsea] Manning: The Story Behind the Wikileaks Whistleblower,” in [Al Jazeera America](http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/3/christians-persecutioncomplex.html): > [@](#): > > The most persecuted minority in the United States is not Muslims, African-Americans or immigrants. It’s our Christian supermajority that’s truly oppressed. > > Needless to say (or maybe not) this news ticker of persecuted American Christians floats far and free from reality. More than 75 percent of the United States identifies as Christian; 57 percent believe in the devil, and nearly 8 in 10 Americans believe the Bible to be either the “inspired word” or literal word of God. Despite the constitutional separation of church and state, the government began under President George W. Bush to outsource social welfare programs to faith-based organizations (more than 98 percent, according to one 2006 study, of them Christian churches), and schools with religious ties (mostly Christian) in several states are now well fed by direct public subsidies. But then, American places of worship (again, most of them Christian) have long enjoyed a de facto public subsidy as tax-exempt 501(c)3 organizations funded by tax-deductible contributions. Last month President Barack Obama himself held forth at National Prayer Breakfast about the importance of Jesus in his life. > > To be sure, there are Christians in the world who face persecution, from Copts in Egypt to Catholics in northern Nigeria. But in the U.S., the Christian faith and its institutions have never been more pampered by the state. > > What accounts for this orgy of self-pity? Part of it is hard-wired into Christianity itself, says Candida Moss, a biblical scholar at Notre Dame University and the author of the recent book “The Myth of Christian Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom.” > > The persecution of Christians is the historical equivalent of a false memory, she argues… it was Eusebius, bishop of Caesaria and the first important historian of the church, who “encoded the understanding of the church as persecuted into the history of Christianity itself.” His martyrdom stories and those of other fourth century hagiographers were written to shore up orthodoxy (writers used martyrs as sock puppets to denounce heretics) and drum up tourism for local shrines. These tales of persecution — full of blood, cruelty and dodgy “facts” — were enjoyed at the time, Moss writes, much in the way that modern audiences take in horror movies, and the lowbrow gore has long been justified by embarrassed exegetes as a response to the strain of persecution. Except, as Moss argues, the textual evidence indicates all these tales of persecution were composed after, not before, Christianity had become the favored religion of the Roman Empire in the early fourth century. In short, they belong to an invented tradition of victimization. > > Historical record aside, who can resist the deliciousness of having both the upper hand of power and the righteousness of the oppressed? Such persecution mania is dangerous, writes Moss, because “martyrdom is easily adapted by the powerful to cast themselves as victims and justifying their polemical and vitriolic attacks on others,” as freshly empowered Christians swiftly proved by trashing pagan temples and punctuating the centuries since with internecine bloodbaths and the odd crusade. > > Moss’ study has earned favorable reviews for its scrupulous scholarship; it has also aroused much nastiness from Christian critics. Even before the book was released, she told me via email, it was denounced by conservative Christian commentators and she has since received hundreds of angry messages, letters and phone calls. She wrote: > > > [@](#): > > > > Most of these people appear not to have actually read the book but, rather, have heard about it and see it as a further example of persecution. Many of them write to the university and ask it to fire me. An alarming number think that I deserve to be beaten, raped or killed (although blessedly very few of them threaten me directly). Many of the comments are about my character and appearance, but I hear that’s very common for female writers. I’ve been called a “female Judas Iscariot”, a “demon,” possessed by Satan, evil, the Antichrist and a Holocaust denier. > > All of which only confirms Moss’ point about how belligerent some Christians can be in their dealings with heterodoxy — always under the pretense of a righteous response to an alien threat. It really annoys me that Christians in this country scream about oppression. A joke I once heard is that Christians are the only majority group that needs their own book stores. They don’t know real oppression and the vast majority of those who screamed it most loudly in 2012 voted against the Christian and for the Mormon. I always felt that Christians screaming about being oppressed in America was because the Bible itself has passages about how they will face persecution, so they are quite intent to create it out of whole cloth in order to just feel persecuted. I mean, health insurance companies being forced to pay for contraception is not oppressed Christianity. But here, according to way too many people, it is. So does anyone here feel that Christians are indeed being persecuted here, or can add to the article I linked as to reasons why this phenomenon has taken root lately? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/2 "2014-03-31T19:05:25Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > They don’t know real oppression and the vast majority of those who screamed it most loudly in 2012 voted against the Christian and for the Mormon. Given that Mormons consider themselves Christians I think you’ve done a bit of well-poisoning here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/3 "2014-03-31T19:07:04Z")
Yes, but a majority of Evangelicals don’t consider Mormons Christian, or at least are quite suspicious of them. They’re none too fond of Catholics for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/4 "2014-03-31T19:16:18Z")
Cite: > [@](#): > > A study out Thursday takes another look at the uneasy relationship between Mormons and evangelical Christians… The report, by the Forum on Religion & Public Life of the Pew Research Center, says Mormons and white evangelicals share strong beliefs in prayer, the Bible and conservative politics but disagree sharply over theology. About half of Mormons in the survey said they felt hostility from evangelicals. > > [Read the full Pew study](http://www.pewforum.org/2012/01/12/mormons-in-america-executive-summary/) > > The report is generally consistent with several that have been undertaken in the last few years, most recently a survey in October of Protestant ministers, 75 percent of whom disagreed with the statement, “I personally believe Mormons (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) to be Christians.” Sixty percent said they “strongly disagreed.” > > [NBC News](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/12/10118785-study-examines-mormon-evangelical-divide) And from the linked Pew stody: > [@](#): > > many non-Mormons do not see Mormonism as a Christian faith. A November 2011 Pew Research Center survey found that one-third of non-Mormon U.S. adults (32%) say the Mormon faith is not a Christian religion, and an additional 17% are unsure whether Mormonism is Christian. In an open-ended question asking what one word best describes the Mormon religion, the same survey found that the most commonly offered response was “cult.” It’s safe to say that evangelicals would be considerably higher as a group on this one. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/5 "2014-03-31T19:17:35Z")
Frankly, I think a lot of it has to do with the Bible’s prediction that Christians will be persecuted. You’ll find several predictions of that sort throughout the Bible, and there’s a very real idea among some Christians that if you’re not being persecuted for your faith, then you must be lukewarm about it. So it doesn’t take much imagination to either 1) interpret everything as “persecution” or 2) push the envelope until there’s some backlash that can be interpreted as persecution. Now that you’re being persecuted, you pat yourself on the back - you’ve been proven to be one of the fervently faithful. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/6 "2014-03-31T19:24:39Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > So does anyone here feel that Christians are indeed being persecuted here, or can add to the article I linked as to reasons why this phenomenon has taken root lately? Perhaps they read this message board. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/7 "2014-03-31T19:26:14Z")
The following is true for almost everyone. For me, probably for you, for most who’ll read it: 1.) Everyone likes to paint themselves as a victim if possible. 2.) When things are going your way you’re going to fear any threats to the status quo. It’s particularly pathetic and ridiculous with these people but we’re all basically the same. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/8 "2014-03-31T19:26:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps they read this message board. I realize this is snark, but that’s a pretty good example. If a bit of internet snark is “persecution”, the word has no usable meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/9 "2014-03-31T19:27:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps they read this message board. Perhaps you could explain to us how Christians are being persecuted on this message board. While you’re at it, perhaps you could give us what definition of “persecution” you are using in this context, and how it relates to persecution as defined in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/10 "2014-03-31T19:30:09Z")
I suspect there is some general psychological reason why people are easily convinced that they are being persecuted, despite vast evidence to the contrary. It’s like on some level people _wish_ to say they are persecuted, for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/11 "2014-03-31T19:33:49Z")
Dracoi’s comment about the biblical theme of persecution, is well taken. From the Jewish slavery in Egypt, and exile in Babylon, onto the Jesus suffering on the cross, and then the persecution of the early church by the Romans, there is a general theme that earthly suffering for your beliefs is holy. So even if they aren’t actually suffering they have a moral imparative to feel as if they are. Secondly, there is the fact that in our culture there is a strong desire to root for the underdog. So to make themselves sympathetic they have to convince themselves that they are on the losing side. Third, although its still dominant, Christianity in the US is no where near as dominant as it used to be. So it is easy for them to see the loss of dominance and rise of secularism, as a direct attack against them and the “natural order of things” which had them on top. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/12 "2014-03-31T19:37:21Z")
They believe it because their prophet told them they would be [persecuted in his name](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+21%3A12-15&version=NIRV): > [@](#): > > [sup]12[/sup] “But before all this, people will arrest you and treat you badly. They will hand you over to synagogues and prisons. You will be brought to kings and governors. All this will happen to you because of my name. [sup]13[/sup] In that way you will be witnesses to them. [sup]14[/sup] But make up your mind not to worry ahead of time about how to stand up for yourselves. [sup]15[/sup] I will give you words of wisdom. None of your enemies will be able to withstand them or oppose them. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/13 "2014-03-31T19:41:56Z")
I think it’s because all Christians secretly, unconsciously realize they’ve been duped by a fake, delusional image of “God” (or worse, a psychopathic soul-destroying entity masquerading as Jesus Christ Almighty) and due to psychological transference, or codependence, they need to blame something else for the mistake they’ve made. It’s akin to families of alcoholics and drug addicts who will ignore their loved one’s substance abuse problems, even in the face of irrefutable evidence, because few people can accept that they’ve been strung along by their drug addict family members – let alone admit their own addiction to a False God. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/14 "2014-03-31T19:49:03Z")
Some Christians equate not having a superior position with persecution. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/15 "2014-03-31T19:49:20Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I realize this is snark, but that’s a pretty good example. If a bit of internet snark is “persecution”, the word has no usable meaning. Some of the things on this message board (and other places, for that matter) go well beyond snark, sometimes even into frothing hatred. If you fervently believed in something, and your belief was based on both long-standing historical precedent and on deeply-held morals and religion – and then people started coming along and calling you all sorts of unpleasant names and calling you hate-filled and intolerant – you might feel a little bit persecuted too. And if you read of fellow believers being dragged into court, and being forced to pay fines because of actions based on their beliefs, you might feel a little persecuted. But somehow persecuting Christians for their opposition to gay marriage isn’t “real” persecution. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/16 "2014-03-31T19:56:22Z")
Two factors: 1. As already stated, humans seem to enjoy complaining about being persecuted. From idiots whinging about the 1% being attacked, to Christians, Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Hobby Lobby, Chik Fil A, etc. everyone likes to complain they are being attacked. 2. Christians HAVE seen their overall power structure change. Christianity is losing its default status as the religion of America; old practices of saying a prayer at school, or assuming that everyone is Christian, etc. is losing favor and court battles, etc. So a Christian can point to a prior time and comment that things have changed for Christianity in America. I don’t consider this to be persecution - but there HAS been a shift. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/17 "2014-03-31T19:56:50Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > But somehow persecuting Christians for their opposition to gay marriage isn’t “real” persecution. Frothing internet outrage impresses me as much as anything on the internet - not much at all. Again, if that’s persecution, it renders the word “persecution” useless in practice. It makes a mockery of millions of people who have truly been persecuted for their faith or for any other reason. Oh, and by the way, I have made no secret of being Christian on these boards in this or other threads. I’ve been called names and treated poorly in real life - not due to religion but for other reasons. I wouldn’t call that persecution, and the internet version is a mild irritant compared to some of that. Actually, that wasn’t entirely accurate. I have been called out based on my religion before - by other Christians who believed (based solely on my East Asian appearance) that I was not. And/or that I wasn’t the right kind of Christian (Southern Baptists are particularly bad about this). ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/18 "2014-03-31T19:58:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps they read this message board. For a group of people who worship a guy who supposedly got tortured to death, the American Christian has a pretty low tolerance for discomfort. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/19 "2014-03-31T20:00:49Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I realize this is snark, but that’s a pretty good example. If a bit of internet snark is “persecution”, the word has no usable meaning. I don’t agree. Words have meanings, to be sure, but I usually take the dictionary’s meanings as authority for the proper use of words. “Hostility and ill-treatment, esp. because of race or political or religious beliefs.” (per Google) If you’d like to defend the proposition that on the SDMB, Christianity is NOT subject to hostility and ill-treatment, please feel free. I agree, of course, that the SDMB is not inflicting bodily injury, hounding people from their homes, or denying them job opportunities. But that’s not the limit of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012/20 "2014-03-31T20:02:01Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > For a group of people who worship a guy who supposedly got tortured to death, the American Christian has a pretty low tolerance for discomfort. Words have meanings. The word persecute means “hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs.” It does not mean, “hostility and ill-treatment, esp. because of race or political or religious beliefs, applied to persons of high tolerance for discomfort.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-america-s-most-populous-religious-group-feel-so-victimized/685012.md?page=2)