# Why do Christians openly worship torture-murder and practice cannabalism? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721 "2013-02-08T18:41:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/61 "2013-02-09T02:46:05Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > :dubious: > > Are you seriously arguing that _every single Christian_ out there does that and/or encourages? No, nor did I say so. But plenty do do those things and similar things, and I’m not interested in pretending someone who commits atrocities is a moral person just because they do it in the name of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/62 "2013-02-09T02:56:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Sometimes I wonder what your childhood was like. [true story] I sometimes wonder if Der Trihs is hot. Especially when I learned he was on the shorter side (tend to be more muscular). (Although 5’6’’ might be a little _too_ short. Then I thought, “Maybe he is of Mexican extraction?”) Is he super fat? Or super old? Could he secretly be a sexpot? But he doesn’t seem to have much luck with women, so it’s all so unclear…[/true story] Just another round of idle speculation inspired by our Der Trihs! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/63 "2013-02-09T03:53:04Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > You are wrong. Catholics do not believe that the bread physically becomes the flesh or that the wine physically becomes the blood. > > And almost no protestants believe in transubstantiation at all - in my Baptist upbringing the bread and wine were routinely described as metaphor. Even so, metaphorically or literally, the notion that taking God inside your body brings you closer to Him does seem rather primitive. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/64 "2013-02-09T04:12:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Kimstu](#): > > > > However, moral and reasonable people may disagree with you in some cases about what counts as “impossible” or “blatantly cruel and bigoted”. > > > > And that’s the part you seem to have trouble with. > > Amazingly enough yes, I have trouble considering people who in the name of their religion lie and oppress and abuse and engage in bigotry and commit murder “moral”. Difficult as this may be for you to believe, disagreeing with **Der Trihs** about certain abstract epistemological or moral assumptions is not necessarily equivalent to lying and oppressing and abusing and engaging in bigotry and committing murder. Your problem is that you simply don’t seem to be able to detect any difference between those two categories. If somebody disagrees with any of your personal premises concerning religion and/or morality, then according to you they’re automatically evil lying oppressive bastards, case closed. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/65 "2013-02-09T04:13:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Even so, metaphorically or literally, the notion that taking God inside your body brings you closer to Him does seem rather primitive. “Primitive” is a vague word which judges the aesthetic, not the function. If you do not believe in it, then you believe it serves no function. If you do believe in it, the method is only a means to a greater end. To call something Primitive, Advanced, Outmoded, or Progressive, is a judgement based on cultural ideas or one’s personal state of digestion, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/66 "2013-02-09T04:22:40Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Cause Jesus said to? Duh! Yeah, but He meant, “Get drunk!” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/67 "2013-02-09T04:23:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Difficult as this may be for you to believe, disagreeing with **Der Trihs** about certain abstract epistemological or moral assumptions is not necessarily equivalent to lying and oppressing and abusing and engaging in bigotry and committing murder. > > Your problem is that you simply don’t seem to be able to detect any difference between those two categories. If somebody disagrees with any of your personal premises concerning religion and/or morality, then according to you they’re automatically evil lying oppressive bastards, case closed. When what they disagree with me on is “being a dishonest bigoted tyrant is bad” then yes, I think it’s fair to assume that they are indeed inclined toward bigotry, dishonesty and tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/68 "2013-02-09T04:25:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > When what they disagree with me on is “being a dishonest bigoted tyrant is bad” then yes, I think it’s fair to assume that they are indeed inclined toward bigotry, dishonesty and tyranny. The problem is that you just as readily make the same assumption when they disagree with you on pretty much anything else involving religion or morality. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/69 "2013-02-09T04:51:24Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > “Primitive” is a vague word which judges the aesthetic, not the function. Well? Aren’t esthetic standards relevant to judging religious practices? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/70 "2013-02-09T06:12:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > When what they disagree with me on is “being a dishonest bigoted tyrant is bad” then yes, I think it’s fair to assume that they are indeed inclined toward bigotry, dishonesty and tyranny. Except, some people don’t all religion as “bigotry, dishonesty, and tyranny.” We see shades of grey. Some of us don’t see things in such extreme terms. It’s not question of “you’re either with us or against us. This side good, this side bad. There’s no middle ground, it’s all black and white. Period.” You come off as a bad parody of how right wingers portray atheists and leftists. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/71 "2013-02-09T11:32:23Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > You are wrong. Catholics do not believe that the bread physically becomes the flesh or that the wine physically becomes the blood. > [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > You’re kind of tarded huh? It’s ok I had a tarded girlfriend once and she’s a pilot now. > > I grew up in a Catholic church until I was 14. No one believed it literally turned into flesh and blood. > [@Catechism](#): > > At the heart of the Eucharistic celebration are the bread and wine that, by the words of Christ and the invocation of the Holy Spirit, become Christ’s Body and Blood. From [here](http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm). > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > So what do you do with the last few drops of wine left in the cup? Make some bloody holy vinegar. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/72 "2013-02-09T13:30:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Except, some people don’t all religion as “bigotry, dishonesty, and tyranny.” We see shades of grey. Some of us don’t see things in such extreme terms. It’s not question of “you’re either with us or against us. This side good, this side bad. There’s no middle ground, it’s all black and white. Period.” > > You come off as a bad parody of how right wingers portray atheists and leftists. If you could make atheism (somehow) be shown to endorse literal torture and literal cannibalism, and absolve Christianity of any such tendencies, **Guin** , you’d be on the streetcorner in rags preaching this truth to passerbys 24/7. Nuts like you have a little checkbox in all these dialogues, asking “Christian?”–anyone who checks it off, gets a pass from you. “Oh, he couldn’t possibly be an obnoxious empty-headed idiot, he’s a member of our tribe, let’s look the other way at any transgressions and get his good fellow into shape as a better Christian. Oh, this one is marked ‘atheist,’ a filthy rabble-rouser. Let’s be completely intolerant of him, and his thoroughly offensive ideas.” Your concept of a gray area is strange–you tolerate and make excuses for and justify any insane Christian beliefs, and you’re very quick to dismiss and deride sensible, sound, logical atheistic posters, insisting that you’re looking at the gray area dispassionately. As someone once may have said, “Look at the log jammed into your your own eye before you criticize the piece of dust that’s in mine.” You’re a total hypocrite in not going after the nutty and offensive beliefs and acts of your fellow Christians, whom you might be able to persuade, rather than the beliefs and acts of atheists that you don’t care for. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/73 "2013-02-09T13:54:12Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yes, that’s what the Catholic church believes. Its parishioners, on the other hand, is a different story. The survey I linked to above only has 30% believing the standard RCC interpretation. If they do not believe one of the major beliefs of the faith, then I don’t understand why they still call themselves Catholic. Didn’t someone recently, either Donohoe or someone from the Vatican, say the church needs to start throwing out people who do not believe these fairly important matters of faith? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/74 "2013-02-09T15:04:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There is plenty of nonsense in the **pchaos** and **koufax** threads. Neither poster has the foggiest idea what atheists think, and their attempts to figure it out have been painfully slow. But I can’t remember anything like this OP in there, and even if statements like that were made at some point, this OP is not where a GD thread is supposed to start. On the part of **pchaos** there has been _no_ progress-in fact, he just lied\* again\* in the “Atheist Church” thread about accepting the dictionary definition of “atheist”. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/75 "2013-02-09T15:07:47Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The cup is rinsed with water and poured into a special sink that drains directly into the ground. My brain is taunting me by not remembering the Latin name for that particular object. > > ETA: _piscina_! I’m not now nor have ever been catholic, but I went to uncountable services with my ex wife over 20 years. In every service I ever attended, the priest would drink the leftover wine, then pour water into the chalice, swish it around and drink it, then wipe out the chalice with a cloth. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/76 "2013-02-09T15:09:08Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m not now nor have ever been catholic, but I went to uncountable services with my ex wife over 20 years. In every service I ever attended, the priest would drink the leftover wine, then pour water into the chalice, swish it around and drink it, then wipe out the chalice with a cloth. Episcopal Church-same thing. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/77 "2013-02-09T15:18:01Z")
> [@Cumberdale](#): > > If they do not believe one of the major beliefs of the faith, then I don’t understand why they still call themselves Catholic. Lots of folks are “culturally Catholic.” You’re Catholic because you were born Catholic and grew up Catholic. Most people don’t really think about it that deeply. It’s no mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/78 "2013-02-09T15:32:25Z")
I had a thread a while ago about what it would take belief-wise for a Catholic to leave the church and found out that, for most Catholic posters, it just wasn’t going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/79 "2013-02-09T16:33:51Z")
**pseudotriton ruber ruber** , apparently you’ve never paid attention, because I’m not a Christian. I simply hate generalizations, and black and white thinking. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721/80 "2013-02-09T19:45:49Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > About as obvious as asking why atheists don’t form churches. Atheists have formed churches, the atheist churches were probably not formed by Christians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-christians-openly-worship-torture-murder-and-practice-cannabalism/649721.md?page=5)