# Why do companies sometimes not use definite articles to refer to their products? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 12, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949 "2014-07-12T21:17:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/41 "2014-07-15T13:46:36Z")
Johanna, you’re the linguist, so either I’m being honored or mocked. I don’t know which. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/42 "2014-07-15T14:50:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And it’s not arbitrary. It’s the fact that—except in a title that is set off in quotes or italics—a definite article is always acting as an ordinary definite article, and that function overrides any notion that it is part of a proper name. Where can I confirm this fact? You may be perfectly correct but the argument begs the question. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/43 "2014-07-15T21:53:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > English classes don’t teach you to capitalize “the” in ordinary references to names of things. > > And it’s not arbitrary. It’s the fact that—except in a title that is set off in quotes or italics—a definite article is always acting as an ordinary definite article, and that function overrides any notion that it is part of a proper name. > > When you have a definite article as part of a name, say a newspaper—_The New York Times_—even though the “The” is supposed to be part of the name, it is essentially separable from it. You keep it or discard it according to the grammatical needs of the sentence. > > That’s why it’s perfectly fine to say “A _New York Times_ article stated …” instead of “A _The New York Times_ article stated …” It’s stupid and ungrammatical, and it’s because even though we pretend that “The” is an integral part of the name, when you actually use the name in a sentence, “the” really is more important in its grammatical role as an article. > > So, not only can you drop the “The” but you can also put back in a “the” that’s not part of the name—“I asked the _New York Times_ reporter who wrote this story …” Your points are noted, and I don’t dispute that this is very common usage, probably common enough to have become a _de facto_ rule. I’m not disputing that such a rule may have evolved but rather asserting that this is illogical and technically sloppy usage. **Johanna** is of course absolutely right that we’d never say something like “a The New York Times article” even though “The New York Times” is really the proper name, and therein we have a clue as to how this sloppy usage came about: sometimes language has to conform to structural or aesthetic necessities. To wit: I might say “I attended Harvard” but I would also say “I attended **the** University of Southern California”. The constructs of certain proper names demand the definite article even though it’s not really part of the name, and such definite articles would not, of course, be capitalized. Those constructs appear in general to be the use of the plural form, the presence of an adjective, or the presence of the word “of” in the name. The grand trifecta of all three is probably the most famous example in the world, “the United States of America”, where “the” [is not formally part of the name](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/VC-25%28040616-F-5677R-002%29.jpg) but you’d never use it in a sentence without the preceding definite article in either its full or its shortened form. This has led – regrettably, it seems to me – to the identical usage even when “the” really is part of the formal name. I have to admit that the idea does have one somewhat shaky element of supporting logic. If one is allowed to – indeed, must – tack on the definite article in a sentence even when it’s not part of the name, then one can argue that one is equally allowed to consider the definite article separable even when it **is** formally part of the name. All this means to me is that the English language has rules except when it doesn’t. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/44 "2014-07-15T22:01:21Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I’ve always wondered why this happens with Prom as well. Certainly it’s a proper noun, you wouldn’t say “the Homecoming”, but to me “I’m going to Prom” sounds incredibly awkward. I don’t know how/why/when it became acceptable. In these sorts of instances, which I would consider as different than the instance laid out in the OP, often the speaker is intimating that they are engaged in a canonical or prototypical use of the noun. “I’m going to Prom.” means I’ve a date and a corsage. I’ve rented a tux and we’re going out to eat beforehand and I’m a junior or senior in high school. “I’m going to the prom.” could be the same thing but it might also be that I’m chaperoning or helping decorate or crashing it. Same with school or university or college. “I’m going to college” means I’ve matriculated and on my way to earning a degree. “I’m going to the college.” means I’ve an errand to run. ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/45 "2014-07-16T00:30:00Z")
There’s some peculiarity by region within the US, also. Around Chicago, to grocery shop, you go to “the Jewel.” And everything in Ohio seems to have the The as a vital component, such as “The Ohio State University.” (That’s the primary example which comes to mind.) But in ads, I get the impression that the addition of “The” is selling the object as an experience. You never hear this for brands of diapers or toothpaste. It connotes luxury. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/46 "2014-07-16T01:04:28Z")
> [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](#): > > And everything in Ohio seems to have the The as a vital component, such as “The Ohio State University.” (That’s the primary example which comes to mind.) > > . I have to keep saying this every time it’s mentioned. Except for the public relations department at OSU, no one cares about the “the.” Normal Ohioans say “Ohio State University” without the “the” and so do most local journalists. These “official” _the_s are not important to ordinary usage. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/47 "2014-07-16T01:09:26Z")
> [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](#): > > There’s some peculiarity by region within the US, also. Around Chicago, to grocery shop, you go to “the Jewel.” More like “da Jewel’s.” Gotta have the Chicago “s” in there. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/48 "2014-07-16T19:29:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Johanna, you’re the linguist, so either I’m being honored or mocked. I don’t know which. Oh, for the love of. I was sincere in my praise of you. I don’t mock that way, and I think it’s sad that no one can pay a simple compliment on the internet any more. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/49 "2014-07-16T19:39:11Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Oh, for the love of. I was sincere in my praise of you. I don’t mock that way, and I think it’s sad that no one can pay a simple compliment on the internet any more. I wasn’t rejecting your compliment. I just wasn’t sure. As you say it’s hard to discern sincerity from sarcasm online. It’s happened to me in the past week as well. So make no mistake, I respect your expertise on these matters and now that any ambiguity is cleared up, I’m truly flattered. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/50 "2014-07-16T20:07:27Z")
wrong thread ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/51 "2014-07-17T02:06:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The Bronx comes from “Jonas Bronck’s Land,” I believe. The river and the land get their name from him. The usage of calling it “the Bronx” comes from having to cross “the” Bronx River to get to that city/borough (in the era before there were multiple bridges connecting to the mainland). ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/52 "2014-07-17T02:16:55Z")
> [@runningdude](#): > > These are all abbreviations of a longer name. The Hague = The Count’s Woods, the Bronx = the Bronx River, the Prom = the Promenade Ball. I made a mistake; :smack: “The Prom” = “The Promenade”, fully spelled out. “Promenade” is a noun, and can keep its article. The long form of “Homecoming” is “Homecoming -Ball, - Game, - Weekend, -etc.” “Homecoming” is an adjective, and giving it an article would sound wrong (same for “Prom -Season, -Date,…”) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/53 "2014-07-17T11:30:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So make no mistake, I respect your expertise on these matters and now that any ambiguity is cleared up, I’m truly flattered. Thanks! I thought the explanation you gave was better than I would have done. Although I do have some “expertise” on the subject in that I moonlight as a (simple garden-variety) copy editor, I have no special learning in this matter, because it isn’t really linguistics. I mean, if this is a linguistics topic, then the _Chicago Manual of Style_ is a linguistics textbook. I have an affinity for the subject but I don’t put myself forward as an expert on writing style. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/54 "2014-07-21T01:56:32Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The grand trifecta of all three is probably the most famous example in the world, “the United States of America”, where “the” [is not formally part of the name](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/VC-25%28040616-F-5677R-002%29.jpg) but you’d never use it in a sentence without the preceding definite article in either its full or its shortened form. As an aside I’ve heard many an historian point out that before the (The?) Civil War the country was commonly referred to in the plural form, i.e. \*\*\*these \*\*\*United States _ **are** _ etc. because technically that’s what we were, a collection of multiple states. After the war it turned us into an ‘is’, _ **The** _ United States _ **is** _… > [@Irishman](#): > > Interestingly enough, an American would typically say “I am going to college” or “I am going to school” without using an article for those generic terms. However, we do not use university or hospital that way. Both of those we do use an article. I think I can speak for all Americans when I say that just speaking the line “he’s in hospital” out loud to ourselves sounds so completely wrong. It may be because unlike a college, school, theater etc. a hospital is a place that is always taken seriously, so we always say it more formally as 'the hospital". In fact the only time we’d say “a hospital” would only be because we were unsure as to the exact location, which makes it sound even more urgent (“Get him to a hospital!” or “My mom’s in a hospital!!”) > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The Hague. The Bronx. Among cretins, The Five/The Ten/The One-oh-One. Reminds me of a really bad joke: What NYC borough begins with the letter ‘D’? Answer- Da’ Bronx! ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/55 "2014-07-21T06:51:40Z")
When discussing ships of the Royal Navy, the Royal Canadian Navy, the Royal Australian Navy and the Royal New Zealand Navy, one should not append “the” to their names, since the ships are the monarch’s: HMS Insouciance, HMCS Inconsolable, HMAS Incontinent and HMNZS Intangible, for instance. They’re simply Insouciance, Inconsolable, Incontinent and Intangible because the Her Majesty’s Ship Insouciance and the Her Majesty’s Canadian Ship Inconsolable, etc., sound silly. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/56 "2014-07-21T08:56:47Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > When discussing ships of the Royal Navy, the Royal Canadian Navy, the Royal Australian Navy and the Royal New Zealand Navy, one should not append “the” to their names, since the ships are the monarch’s: HMS Insouciance, HMCS Inconsolable, HMAS Incontinent and HMNZS Intangible, for instance. > > They’re simply Insouciance, Inconsolable, Incontinent and Intangible because the Her Majesty’s Ship Insouciance and the Her Majesty’s Canadian Ship Inconsolable, etc., sound silly. Sure, when they’re expanded out, it sounds silly, but that’s not really a good linguistic rule. Acronyms often get treated as their own entities, separate from their fully spelled out meaning. For example, one can say “I was watching a TMC movie yesterday” whereas saying “I was watching a The Movie Channel movie yesterday” sounds silly. It’s quite usual, at least in American English, to say “the Pinafore” for “HMS Pinafore.” (See, for example, the song “I am the Captain of the Pinafore.”) ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/57 "2014-07-21T16:45:25Z")
I finally found [**this**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_prefix) after flailing about for something to cite since last night. > [@](#): > > Note that while calling a US ship “the USS Flattop” may make grammatical sense, the preliminary article “the” is discouraged by nearly all style guides, and the U.S. Navy. The U.S. Navy uses ship names without article, except for USS The Sullivans, named for the five Sullivan brothers, all lost at sea during World War II.[10] Its British equivalent (“the HMS Flattop”) is also discouraged, since “the Her Majesty’s Ship” would be grammatically incorrect. A [**2011 Dope thread**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=605089) has this: > [@](#): > > According to The Chicago Manual of Style, 15th ed., “the carrier Enterprise” is correct but not “the USS Enterprise.” “The Enterprise” is also correct, but The Naval Institute Guide to Combat Fleets of the World prefers “USS Enterprise (CVN-65)” (no "the”). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/58 "2014-07-21T17:17:12Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > I think I can speak for all Americans when I say that just speaking the line “he’s in hospital” out loud to ourselves sounds so completely wrong. It may be because unlike a college, school, theater etc. a hospital is a place that is always taken seriously, so we always say it more formally as 'the hospital". If I were to consider a theory, it would be something like when we talk about school or college, those are things we formally enroll in that have an extended duration of back and forth attendance. Whereas the hospital is a place we temporarily visit - even as a patient, we’re there until we leave, and not expected for a set duration of back and forth visits. But that wouldn’t explain why we Americans never picked up the habit with university the way British speakers did. So I’m inclined to think there isn’t a simple answer, and it’s more just a pattern of “that’s the way we do it”. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/59 "2014-07-21T17:38:07Z")
“He’s at uni.” = “He’s at college.” Same function, different dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949/60 "2014-07-21T17:57:32Z")
Also these have different meanings— –He’s in college –He’s at college –He’s at the college [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-companies-sometimes-not-use-definite-articles-to-refer-to-their-products/692949.md?page=4)