# Why do conservatives pretend to be libertarian? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 26, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471 "2012-07-26T17:32:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/41 "2012-07-27T22:52:58Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > You can force TV and radio stations and newspapers to give a certain portion of free coverage to candidates. You can enact criminal penalties for political spending. That should go some way toward de-influencing money. You’d have to repeal the 1st amendment first. Good luck with that. (Well, actually I wish you bad luck with that). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/42 "2012-07-27T23:00:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You’d have to repeal the 1st amendment first. Good luck with that. (Well, actually I wish you bad luck with that). Uh, no. The public airwaves have always been regulated. Everybody can’t have their own radio band to operate on, so they have to follow government regulations. Cable isn’t regulated in that manner, although the same limitations are really there. Cable companies and sattelite communications use lots of public resources, and IMHO should be regulated the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/43 "2012-07-27T23:05:48Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Uh, no. The public airwaves have always been regulated. Everybody can’t have their own radio band to operate on, so they have to follow government regulations. Cable isn’t regulated in that manner, although the same limitations are really there. Cable companies and sattelite communications use lots of public resources, and IMHO should be regulated the same way. What I was responding to was: “You can enact criminal penalties for political spending.” Not without repealing the 1st amendment. You can regulate public airwaves - but most of information today has nothing to do with public airwaves. Over-the-air TV (and, increasingly, radio - see Pandora) is a relic of the past. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/44 "2012-07-27T23:06:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You’d have to repeal the 1st amendment first. Good luck with that. (Well, actually I wish you bad luck with that). I do not believe you are at all bothered by the prospect of plutocracy, so I understand your feelings, though of course I do not share them. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/45 "2012-07-27T23:09:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > What I was responding to was: > > “You can enact criminal penalties for political spending.” > > Not without repealing the 1st amendment. > > You can regulate public airwaves - but most of information today has nothing to do with public airwaves. Over-the-air TV (and, increasingly, radio - see Pandora) is a relic of the past. Strangely enough, I agree with you. We must fight the monster that is real, the one that threatens to destroy democracy, and that’s plutocracy. That is really all the justification we need. Repeal the First Amendment? All for it, if we replace it with something that guarantees freedom of speech and limits the power of plutocrats to control our public media. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/46 "2012-07-27T23:11:12Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Strangely enough, I agree with you. We must fight the monster that is real, the one that threatens to destroy democracy, and that’s plutocracy. That is really all the justification we need. Repeal the First Amendment? All for it, if we replace it with something that guarantees freedom of speech and limits the power of plutocrats to control our public media. Again, bad luck with that. I assure you that when you come to take away the 1st amendment, you will most probably be met with 2nd amendment solutions. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/47 "2012-07-27T23:26:56Z")
I’m not posting about the thread topic itself, but: > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well while the dumbass portion of the electorate is getting worried about some small fraction of Americans having access to abortions … I wasn’t aware that 50.8% is a small fraction. Even restricting to just women of reproductive age, [you’re talking about 20% of the population](http://www.census.gov/hhes/fertility/files/cps/2010/table1-10-allraces.xls). Not a majority (duh), but far from being “some small fraction”. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/48 "2012-07-28T00:35:41Z")
Bpelta, you need to develop a better vocabulary on these issues. Just saying someone is “a conservative” without any context doesn’t make a lot of sense. A person can be (i) conservative or liberal on fiscal issues and (ii) conservative or liberal on social issues. A person that is conservative on fiscal issues and liberal on social issues is a libertarian. So, you saying “he says he’s a libertarian but I think he’s a conservative” is just all kinds of :dubious:. ---
**Author:** ![Bpelta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Bpelta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bpelta)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/49 "2012-07-28T02:30:51Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Bpelta, you need to develop a better vocabulary on these issues. Just saying someone is “a conservative” without any context doesn’t make a lot of sense. A person can be (i) conservative or liberal on fiscal issues and (ii) conservative or liberal on social issues. I understand that in your opinion, if I said Bill Buckley or Russell Kirk were conservatives, that wouldn’t make sense since maybe they’re liberal on some issues. We have terribly different epistemologies. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/50 "2012-07-28T03:14:50Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The typical voter doesn’t know how the Fed or Wall Street works yet money controls the vitality of the country and has a lot more impact on social issues as a whole than the hot button ones that we pretend do. It is just more boring and complicated to discuss so that the general public can understand it even if they wanted to. Politicians use this fact to throw out social issues as a diversion and the public happily responds to those rather than the more important issues simply because it is much easier. This is so elementary, yet so widely ignored, despite all the clusterfuck thinking, policies and movements it gives rise to. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/51 "2012-07-28T03:30:28Z")
> [@Bpelta](#): > > I understand that in your opinion, if I said Bill Buckley or Russell Kirk were conservatives, that wouldn’t make sense since maybe they’re liberal on some issues. > > We have terribly different epistemologies. I use words in a meaningful way and you don’t. That’s the difference. It makes no sense at all to say a person “is a conservative” unless you give some context (i.e., whether you mean “on social issues” or “on fiscal issues”). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/52 "2012-07-28T05:37:17Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > I’m not posting about the thread topic itself, but: > > I wasn’t aware that 50.8% is a small fraction. Even restricting to just women of reproductive age, [you’re talking about 20% of the population](http://www.census.gov/hhes/fertility/files/cps/2010/table1-10-allraces.xls). Not a majority (duh), but far from being “some small fraction”. I realize that half the population is female, but the portion that gets abortion is relatively small. But hey, I know, you’re more knowledgeable than a doctor and have more at stake than any mere pregnant woman. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/53 "2012-07-28T05:41:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Or have polling exams that deny vote to idiots - although I have this feeling that the left wouldn’t like the result of that. Your feeling may be … just a feeling. Google for it if you’re curious who would have won the 2000 and 2004 elections if only those with more then four years of college could vote. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/54 "2012-07-28T05:43:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Your feeling may be … just a feeling. > > Google for it if you’re curious who would have won the 2000 and 2004 elections if only those with more then four years of college could vote. … because those without four years of college _must_ be idiots. Or those after four years of college cannot be idiots. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/55 "2012-07-28T05:44:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, bad luck with that. I assure you that when you come to take away the 1st amendment, you will most probably be met with 2nd amendment solutions. Listen to the “democracy lover.” Faced with an outcome he does not care for, he hauls out the guns. So much for your pretense of caring about democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/56 "2012-07-28T05:45:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Listen to the “democracy lover.” Faced with an outcome he does not care for, he hauls out the guns. So much for your pretense of caring about democracy. You come for my rights, you get what you deserve. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/57 "2012-07-28T05:49:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > … because those without four years of college _must_ be idiots. Or those after four years of college cannot be idiots. Right? Uh… people who aren’t idiots understand that in statistics one uses “proxies” as substitutes for attributes difficult to quantify. I suppose we could let _you_ decide who’s an idiot. I suppose then your prophecy would self-fulfill. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/58 "2012-07-28T06:07:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Uh… people who aren’t idiots understand that in statistics one uses “proxies” as substitutes for attributes difficult to quantify. Sure. But only if there is direct correlation between “proxy” and the attribute you’re trying to quantify. Which hasn’t been shown. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/59 "2012-07-29T04:33:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You come for my rights, you get what you deserve. So I advocate for an amendment to the Constitution designed to rewrite the First Amendment so it can’t be used as a tool for plutocrats to buy our government lock, stock and Congressman, and you haul out the guns. Yeah, you love democracy all right … so long as you get your way. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471/60 "2012-07-29T04:55:46Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > So I advocate for an amendment to the Constitution designed to rewrite the First Amendment so it can’t be used as a tool for plutocrats to buy our government lock, stock and Congressman, and you haul out the guns. Yeah, you love democracy all right … so long as you get your way. Rights such as freedom of speech are not created by the Constitution. The Constitution acknowledges them but does not create them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-conservatives-pretend-to-be-libertarian/629471.md?page=4)