# Why do Dopers start contests regarding grave matters? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159 "2022-10-13T02:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/221 "2022-10-14T23:45:13Z")
Take two: According to **Acsenray** , > **A game (or sport) is defined as having winners and losers, with no serious consequences for those who aren't direct participants. (Click to show/hide cites)** > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > Second, in a game–particularly in gambling–there are winners and losers. > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > > > the _very important thing_ under discussion is an election, which is _explicitly a contest with winners and losers._ > > > > But it’s not a game. It is often spoken of in terms of a game, but it is not actually a game. The significant distinction is that **an actual game or sport implies no serious consequence to those who aren’t direct participants**. > > > > And an election might have winners and losers, literally. However, the trivialization comes in when you define winners and losers of a game or sport that is appended to the election. > **Gambling is defined as a type of game with an element of chance (a presently unknown result) and a prize (such as a ranking). (Click to show/hide cites)** > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > I am very specifically objecting to the framing of the discussion in terms of a game, specifically gambling. > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > It’s a game with an element of chance (a presently unknown result) and a prize (a ranking). That’s gambling so far as I am concerned, the same way an office pool on a sporting event is gambling. * * * **Lance\_Turbo** offers two counterexamples showing the alleged absurdity of this definition of gambling. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Willie Wilson finished a distant 3rd in the 2020 Illinois senate race with 237,699. 3rd is a ranking, so I guess senate races are gambling. Gambling is a type of game, and no games have serious consequences for nonparticipants. Therefore no gambling has serious consequences for people who are not direct participants. Because the senate race had serious consequences for nonparticipants, it was not gambling. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Cuba earned a silver medal in the 2022 U-15 Baseball World Cup. > > Unknown result: check > Prize: check > > The 2022 U-15 Baseball World Cup is gambling. This is a valid counterexample. The 2022 U-15 Baseball World Cup has winners and losers, but does not have serious consequences for those who aren’t direct participants. Therefore it is a game. There is an “element of chance” in that the outcome of the game is unknown beforehand. There is a prize in the form of gold or silver medals. Therefore, the U-15 Baseball World Cup is gambling, which is absurd. The definition of gambling could be modified so as to require a bet or other form of stake to be risked. That’s almost the standard definition. But in doing so, the linked thread would no longer qualify as gambling. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/222 "2022-10-15T00:12:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t consider “Godwinizing” to be an automatic crime. It’s not a crime. However, Nazi analogies in modern-day usage are virtually always thoughtless, inappropriate and insensitive to victims - attributes you profess to be appalled by. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/223 "2022-10-15T00:23:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > > [@Atamasama](#): > > > > Someone can predict that > > > [@Atamasama](#): > > > > So many times in my life have I predicted something > > Recall I never criticized predicting or discussing a topic. Only constructing a game in the form of gambling. My comments have always been narrowly directed at that specific set of conditions. Oh I recall. I recall those specific set of conditions don’t exist in the thread you whined about in the OP. **It is purely predictive.** Nothing about that is a game constructed in the form of gambling. Your continued blathering on as if that IS what was happening in that thread only serves to illustrate what a dumbass you have become. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/224 "2022-10-15T00:33:37Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The definition of gambling could be modified so as to require a bet or other form of stake to be risked. That’s almost the standard definition. But in doing so, the linked thread would no longer qualify as gambling. No, it’s **the** definition. Gambling requires the opportunity for loss of something; a risk is involved. You’re not going to find an authoritative definition which doesn’t include that. I’ll also note that “betting”, which is a part of gambling, is forbidden by [our board’s rules](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reorganized-sdmb-rules/968857), so of course neither that thread nor any other threads on this board have gambling. If you ever see one though, I’m sure the moderators would appreciate if you sent a report about it. Bottom line, no gambling has occurred. This whole thread is based on raving nonsense. We point and laugh at the silly person. A great time is had in the jolly old Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/225 "2022-10-15T00:47:55Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > No, it’s **the** definition. I had the ‘no serious consequences for nonparticipants’ aspect in mind. In any normal definition of gambling you can gamble away your house, with serious consequences for your family members who weren’t playing the game. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/226 "2022-10-15T01:30:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No one in this thread has identified a lack of logic or misbehavior on my part. Except in all those cases where we have. > [@Acsenray](#): > > You just disagree with my conclusions. That too, but that’s not really the point of contention. If you were able to make a coherent and internally consistent argument we could disagree but still have a basis for discussion. Here we just have a dozen or so people trying to understand what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/227 "2022-10-15T01:34:09Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > Sometimes the wisdom of crowds is genuine wisdom, even though nobody knows how it works. It is more that the whims of the crowds greatly influence the outcome, and it doesn’t take a genius to figure out how it works. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/228 "2022-10-15T02:10:13Z")
Go ahead and think that, if it comforts you. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/229 "2022-10-15T02:43:15Z")
What btw _is_ the appeal of the Death Pool game? Unlike the political threads this is about something that s of less reaching import and does not test valuable skillful analysis. Gallows humor? Well, it’s about death, which makes some uncomfortable in all cases (discomfort driving gallows humor) but about people who are as into fictional characters to us functionally. Still must be that? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/230 "2022-10-15T11:53:49Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > In any normal definition of gambling you can gamble away your house We’ve always stopped at pink slips. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/231 "2022-10-15T13:15:13Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > We’ve always stopped at pink slips. That seems an odd thing to bet on. [http://www.intermixonline.com/dw/image/v2/BBSL\_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog\_intermix/default/dw61a25c9a/images/product/hi-res/2017/Dresses/\_10OCTOBER/HOLB\_H09HW602EXCL\_1.jpg?sw=2000&sh=2000&sm=fit](http://www.intermixonline.com/dw/image/v2/BBSL_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog_intermix/default/dw61a25c9a/images/product/hi-res/2017/Dresses/_10OCTOBER/HOLB_H09HW602EXCL_1.jpg?sw=2000&sh=2000&sm=fit) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/232 "2022-10-15T13:16:10Z")
I certainly take your point, but there’s an argument to be made that NOT betting on this sort of thing is akin to Négligénce. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/233 "2022-10-15T13:18:15Z")
(golf clap) ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/234 "2022-10-15T13:34:54Z")
I undiestand your briefs summary. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/235 "2022-10-15T13:39:23Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > It’s hard to dig up a cite because of the hidden profile, though. You’ve said this a couple of times. You are wrong. Discourse has a robust search system. You can search for @Acsenray in this thread, or across the board. No one has any obligation to post a public profile, and whether or not they do so has no impact on your ability to find their posts. So long as you take 5 minutes to learn to use the software. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/236 "2022-10-15T13:49:59Z")
I kind of understand Acsenray 's point. I think that Western civilization is fairly likely to collapse in my lifetime, and when historians write about it, they will point to Trump’s election as an important step down that path. I also think that the upcoming election may have life or death consequences to some of my friends. And if i thought people in the thread were enthusiastically rooting for whatever they predicted to come to pass, i would find it distasteful in many cases. But i lose it at that last step. I don’t think anyone is hanging on the news, hoping their results are the winning ticket. I frequently make pessimistic predictions and I’m frequently happy to be proven wrong. So i expect others are like me, and can do that. And whether or not the pool is technically gambling (spoiler alert, there are varying definitions of gambling, and i don’t give a shit whether it meets yours or not) the stakes are low enough that i don’t believe they significantly incent anyone to root to “win” the bet. I do think Acsenray is being a dick here, in asking a question and then ignoring (or disbelieving) the answers given. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/237 "2022-10-15T14:59:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And whether or not the pool is technically gambling (spoiler alert, there are varying definitions of gambling, and i don’t give a shit whether it meets yours or not) the stakes are low enough that i don’t believe they significantly incent anyone to root to “win” the bet. That’s a fair argument. I don’t agree with your conclusion but I can buy the reasoning. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I do think Acsenray is being a dick here, in asking a question and then ignoring (or disbelieving) the answers given. How does it make me a dick if someone offers reasoning that I don’t buy? No more than it makes everyone else a dick just because they don’t buy my reasoning. Q: “Why do you this?” A: “Reason” Q: “I don’t like/disageee with/find fault with that reason.” That’s a perfectly valid exchange. It’s not dickish. We do it all the time on these boards. There’s nothing sancrosanct about answers in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/238 "2022-10-15T22:10:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s a perfectly valid exchange. It’s not dickish. It’s being a putz. Putz: “Why do you think X?” Several: “Because Y.” Putz: “Wrong.” You wanted to Pit behavior that you imagined occurring, that pretty much only you find horrific if it WAS occurring. But you were too cowardly to actually do that so you wrapped it in not “really ‘pitting’ as such” and “just a question” … If what you meant to do was to condemn contests predicting political outcomes - because political outcomes are too serious, important, and “grave” to have prediction contests about - then don’t be a passive aggressive dickhead: say that straight up. No fun allowed. And yes, in longstanding Pit tradition you’d become the Pittee as that is an idiotic absurd Pit position, especially about the thread you referenced but did not read. Several here made real efforts to try answer your question as if it was an honest one. Several made good faith attempts to try to understand the basis of your disgust given that it seems so without any logic or rationality. The bottom line is that having anything that even reminds you of gambling is bad because … elections are like child abuse and rape and concentration camps? Alrightee. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/239 "2022-10-15T23:23:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Putz: “Why do you think X?” > Several: “Because Y.” > Putz: “Wrong.” While I have disagreed with people’s opinions in this thread regarding the actual topic, reading this bit makes me actually not believe what I’m seeing. What could possibly be wrong about expressing an opinion disagreeing with your response? To the extent even that it justifies name-calling? Isn’t this just part of the basic structure of engaging in a conversation in which there is disagreement? What do you expect me to do when I disagree with your reasoning? Indeed, when you read my OP and choose to respond, don’t you 100 percent expect that I might respond by either agreeing or disagreeing? What do you expect? And if this is indeed your rubric for being a putz , then when does it apply? Does it apply to every kind of disagreement on these boards? When you disagree with someone’s offered reasons for doing something, when are you or are you not allowed to disagree with that reasoning? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-dopers-start-contests-regarding-grave-matters/973159/240 "2022-10-15T23:31:37Z")
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