# why do expat americans never go 'back home'? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 29, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921 "2013-09-29T14:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/61 "2013-10-01T03:57:37Z")
Another thing is the Thai government has specifically labelled me as not being an immigrant. My visa is in the official “Non-Immigrant” category. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/62 "2013-10-01T04:16:39Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > But for the long haul, the overwhelming thing is health care. I did not work in the US long enough to qualify for medicare and even if I had, it is not like here where I need a doctor, I see a doctor. The only ones I can’t go to are ones who have chosen to practice entirely out of the public system, which are very few. When I broke my ankle 8 years ago and spent 6 days in the hospital and had an operation to insert a plate, I showed my medicare card, signed a few waivers (permission to operate, to get anesthetic) and that was the only thing I had to do. I left the hospital, there were no bills, no copay, nothing. US medicare, as I understand it, is nothing like this. > > I would return (I have three kids living in the states) if I could. Obamacare would help, but it is a pale imitation of what I have here. Very pale imitation. > > Then of course there is the utter dysfunction of the government. I have a dear friend who is bringing up her kids in Australia for this reason and also that going to university is cheap compared to the US. No student loans etc just a small garnish on your wages when you reach a certain threshold. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/63 "2013-10-01T04:17:59Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > There were far more non-convict immigrants to Australia than convict ones: Yeah, but if they were _desirable_, why would they have to go to Australia?😉 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/64 "2013-10-01T04:21:26Z")
Judging from some of the Aussies I see around here, they’ve taken to _exporting_ their undesirables now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/65 "2013-10-01T05:16:20Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > You feel comfortable calling people you don’t know to be racists despite a number of people posting various reason why something is not how you believe. > > That is ugly. I had absolutey no intention of insulting anyone here, and I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![sentrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@sentrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sentrix)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/66 "2013-10-01T10:38:46Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Another thing is the Thai government has specifically labelled me as not being an immigrant. My visa is in the official “Non-Immigrant” category. have you joined the monkhood? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/67 "2013-10-01T11:07:57Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Judging from some of the Aussies I see around here, they’ve taken to _exporting_ their undesirables now. 😉 Just sharing the wealth 🙂 I once shared a meal with an Aussie/American couple. She had moved from the US (Texas) to be with him after they met online, and they had a child together. She’d lived here three or four years, I think. We brought up the topic of life in the US vs Australia and she spoke endlessly about all the things she missed from the US, and all the things that were so much better there than here. I can’t say I was offended by her lengthy praise for all things USA and disdain for all things Australian, but I was curious… what, other than her husband, kept her here? I asked “When you go back to visit the US, what do you miss from here?”. She thought hard for several minutes and said “Nothing. There is nothing here that I miss when I’m back home. There is nothing here that is better than what we have at home”. I never had the opportunity to speak to them again, but when I think of them, I wonder how things have worked out. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/68 "2013-10-01T14:55:49Z")
> [@sentrix](#): > > have you joined the monkhood? I’ll answer no more of your questions until you learn proper capitalization. > [@Eliahna](#): > > I once shared a meal with an Aussie/American couple. She had moved from the US (Texas) to be with him after they met online, and they had a child together. She’d lived here three or four years, I think. We brought up the topic of life in the US vs Australia and she spoke endlessly about all the things she missed from the US, and all the things that were so much better there than here. I can’t say I was offended by her lengthy praise for all things USA and disdain for all things Australian, but I was curious… what, other than her husband, kept her here? I asked “When you go back to visit the US, what do you miss from here?”. She thought hard for several minutes and said “Nothing. There is nothing here that I miss when I’m back home. There is nothing here that is better than what we have at home”. > > I never had the opportunity to speak to them again, but when I think of them, I wonder how things have worked out. Are you sure she was speaking of “the US” and not Texas? Texans are unreasonably territorial creatures when it comes to their beloved – that’s how they spell “benighted” – state. I was raised among them and know of what I speak. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/69 "2013-10-01T16:11:37Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Are you sure she was speaking of “the US” and not Texas? Texans are unreasonably territorial creatures when it comes to their beloved – that’s how they spell “benighted” – state. I was raised among them and know of what I speak. My BIL is from Texas and find his current residence, Georgia, to be the armpit of the world. I have known a few Japanese who lived in the States and really hated everything about it. I’m getting too old, when people start bitching about the same old shit they bitched about the week before, then I cut them off. I was just posting that on a thread here recently. If you hate the host country so much. Just. Go. Back. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/70 "2013-10-01T16:17:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I had absolutey no intention of insulting anyone here, and I apologize. That’s classy. Apology accepted. I say stupid things all the time myself. ---
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/71 "2013-10-01T17:04:57Z")
I’m 45. My wife’s 50. There’s a non-zero chance that she will take an executive position in Bangalore some time in the next year or two. Even if we decided to stay once her job there was finished, I can’t imagine ever considering myself anything other than an ex-pat. For one thing, I am 6’1 with sandy blonde hair (well, the stuff that isn’t grey) and blue eyes; I will never, ever be mistaken for Indian. For another, I will likely never have good command of Kannad, or Tamil, or Telugu. For a third, it appears that you can’t even be considered for Indian citizenship until you’ve resided there for 12 years. It doesn’t mean I would consider myself “superior” to the local populace, but I would clearly, always be something of an outsider, no matter how long we decided to stay. Ex-pat seems as good a term to apply to that situation as any. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/72 "2013-10-01T18:29:35Z")
Colibri writes: \> Yeah, but if they were desirable, why would they have to go to Australia? I have an interesting example that I’ve discovered in some personal research. I’ve been doing research on C. S. Lewis’ book _The Abolition of Man_. Lewis starts by quoting from two English composition books for (approximately) seniors in high school. One he calls _The Green Book_ and the other he doesn’t give any name to. The two authors of the first book he calls Gaius and Titius. The author of the second one he calls Orbilius. Lewis deliberately hides their true names and their books’ titles because he doesn’t want to embarrass them. People have since then been able to discover the real books and authors. I ordered them from an online bookseller (since it’s possible to find almost anything online, even 70-year-old textbooks only used in Australia). I’ve also found a lot about these three authors. They were all Australian teachers who were born in England and immigrated to Australia. Gaius and Titius were apparently friends from middle-middle-class families who attended Oxford, expecting to become university professors or some such. They both apparently did mediocre work at Oxford and had no hope for anything beyond jobs teaching high school. They then got (approximately) teaching certificates from an institution in London where one of them met and marreid an Australian family. They both decided to move to Australia, where they had a chance at some better positions than in England. The one who had married the Australian woman became a hgh school teacher, then a part-time university teacher, and then a full-time university professor, and eventually he held a chair at a university. The other one eventually became a teacher at a top Australian private high school and late in his career decided to return to England to take a similar job. The third of these three people, the one called Orbilius in Lewis’s book, was from a lower-middle-class family who had to drop out of school at 16, although he was obviously quite bright. He worked at clerical jobs for several years and tried to study at a university at night. He eventually took a clerical job on a ship traveling to Australia. He decided to stay there instead of returning to England on the return voyage. He took clerical jobs, then private tutoring jobs, and then high school teaching jobs. He got a bachelor’s degree in his thirties and finally a Ph.D. in his fifties. He spent most of his later career teaching and administering adult education classes. I suspect the stories of lots of immigrants to Australia in the early twentieth century were similar to these cases. They were people unable to break through to the jobs they wanted back in their home country. They decided to move to Australia, even though it was considered to be mostly out in the middle of nowhere. They were then often able to fulfill their dreams of doing what they wanted, although it might not have been where they thought they would be living. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/73 "2013-10-02T16:24:04Z")
Let’s turn this on its head: my family is almost 100% Irish. All four of my grandparents were born in Ireland and came to the USA in the 1920s. So did loads of my aunts, uncles and cousins. They moved for two VERY different reasons: my Dad’s family mostly came to America to get jobs, make a little money, and lead a more comfortable life. My Mom’s family were hard-core Fenians who regarded the Irish Republic as an illegitimate quisling state. Some of my Irish relatives never missed Ireland and never went back. Some of them always loved Ireland and regarded it as their REAL home; they considered America a land of exile. But most of them never went back, because they wouldn’t accept rule by the treacherous Free Staters. Some of them went back on vacation or to visit family every few years, for the rest of their lives. Some of them visited home regularly for a decade or more, but eventually stopped visiting because, well, Ireland just wasn’t home any more- America was. A few of them moved back to Ireland after they’d work in the USA for years, and had retired. Some retained strong pride in and affection for the Auld Sod, some never thought about Ireland again, some thought about Ireland only on St. Paddy’s Day. Some are pretty well Americanized, but still miss the foods or music of home. Well, why would it be any different with Americans who move elsewhere? SOME expatriate Yanks still love the USA and hope to return some day. SOME hate the USA for various reasons, and would never dream of going back. SOME still have lingering affection for the States and visit friends and family often. SOME used to visit regularly, but have largely stopped visiting; they now think of their new country as home. SOME think of America only a few times a year- maybe they still have turkey at Thanksgiving or still fly a US flag on the 4th of July. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/74 "2013-10-02T17:31:11Z")
In the US I was stuck in a never-ending cycle of adjunct hell at my university, watching underqualified men being promoted to full time and tenured jobs around me. I had no benefits or health insurance. My wages meant I lived in a terrible apartment in a terrible neighbourhood. In the UK for less than a year, am the equivalent of associate professor under review for tenure (should be sorted one way or another by the end of this semester), respected (not exploited) for my research and teaching skills, have full benefits, NHS, far better wages than I had in the US, &c. I’m still not used to having the school pay for my conference trips or granting me a huge library budget every semester, among other things, instead of having to come out of my pocket. It’s also nice not having to ration food or sit in an apartment in December with the heat on 55F because of shoddy electric heat + no insulation. The atmosphere in my academic department is a million times better than what I ever experienced in 20 years of academics in the US, both in my own involvement and with an ex who was a full-time, tenured professor. (This isn’t to say there isn’t any fuckery in my current situation; my last week or so at school has been ‘interesting’ in the Chinese proverb sense). Sure, there’s no Tastikakes, but there’s loads of opportunities for me here that I didn’t have or could afford in the US (Europe, for example, is just off the coast; London is just up the road via Waterloo Station), and I can get Reese’s peanut butter cups side by side in the shop with decent Cadbury’s (the American-made version is disgusting), so it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/75 "2013-10-02T20:26:15Z")
Taxes. Not filing for ten years…:o ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/76 "2013-10-02T20:38:52Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > For one thing, I am 6’1 with sandy blonde hair (well, the stuff that isn’t grey) and blue eyes; I will never, ever be mistaken for Indian. For another, I will likely never have good command of Kannad, or Tamil, or Telugu. For a third, it appears that you can’t even be considered for Indian citizenship until you’ve resided there for 12 years. I understand, but honestly, couldn’t you say essentially the same thing about an Indian immigrant in, say, Minneapolis? ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/77 "2013-10-03T05:52:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I understand, but honestly, couldn’t you say essentially the same thing about an Indian immigrant in, say, Minneapolis? Heck no. That was the first lesson I learned when I moved abroad: that the American “melting pot” idea (I know, we’ve changed it to salad now) is not universally shared. America believes in the immigrant story! We have famous Americans with foreign accents - look at Henry Kissinger, for example - and we truly see them as American. I can’t speak for every country in the world, but I assure you that the ones I’ve lived in outside the US (Federated States of Micronesia, Mozambique, Indonesia, and Egypt) don’t work like that at all. Once a foreigner, always a foreigner. There is no such thing as assimilation or “hyphenated Americans” or “first-generation Americans.” Foreign is foreign. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/78 "2013-10-03T08:08:04Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I can’t speak for every country in the world, but I assure you that the ones I’ve lived in outside the US (Federated States of Micronesia, Mozambique, Indonesia, and Egypt) don’t work like that at all. Once a foreigner, always a foreigner. There is no such thing as assimilation or “hyphenated Americans” or “first-generation Americans.” Foreign is foreign. Exactly the same in Japan and Taiwan. I know foreigners (usually Asian) who get Japanese citizenship, speak damn good Japanese, and are still called foreigners. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/79 "2013-10-03T08:34:48Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Heck no. That was the first lesson I learned when I moved abroad: that the American “melting pot” idea (I know, we’ve changed it to salad now) is not universally shared. America believes in the immigrant story! We have famous Americans with foreign accents - look at Henry Kissinger, for example - and we truly see them as American. > > I can’t speak for every country in the world, but I assure you that the ones I’ve lived in outside the US (Federated States of Micronesia, Mozambique, Indonesia, and Egypt) don’t work like that at all. Once a foreigner, always a foreigner. There is no such thing as assimilation or “hyphenated Americans” or “first-generation Americans.” Foreign is foreign. If I’d immigrated to the US without getting married, and assuming no hitches, it would have taken upwards of 15 years. And good luck being considered American with a name like mine. Oh, I guess I could have butchered both first (4 words) and lastname (3) … ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921/80 "2013-10-03T08:44:46Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Exactly the same in Japan and Taiwan. I know foreigners (usually Asian) who get Japanese citizenship, speak damn good Japanese, and are still called foreigners. But aren’t first-generation immigrants to America also called that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-expat-americans-never-go-back-home/669921.md?page=5)