# Why do fans bash the "rival" of what they like **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853 "2009-07-13T15:01:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/21 "2009-07-13T18:54:04Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > And in any event , I am not saying “The Camry is total crap” like I hear other people say about stuff. I’m not saying bashing happens in every case, just that the devaluation that is a natural part of choice-making can contribute to why someone would bash the rival of whatever they chose. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/22 "2009-07-13T19:12:15Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > But are Letterman and Leno really rivals like teams? They do compete for fans/viewers but that’s about it. They can both do well. I find it interesting that Leno fans don’t seem to dislike Letterman nearly as much as the Letterman fans feel about Leno. Why are the feelings mostly 1 way? As a Letterman fan who couldn’t stand Leno, I’ll respond. I think it’s because Leno, a very good majority of the time, was pretty pedestrian. That’s not a bad thing - it appeals to a much broader audience, which is the goal of a television show. But he was safe, and much less likely to turn away a potential viewer than Letterman ever has been. As such, your average Leno fan isn’t all that likely to be too invested in Leno, as he’s a pretty casual viewer who is mildly amused by a mildly amusing joke or two. The Letterman fan, on the other hand, can’t stand Leno’s safe jokes because he’s looking for something edgier or more off the wall. The fallacy that comes into play is that the Letterman fan thinks that the Leno fan came into the late night TV viewership looking for the same thing he did and chose the inferior product. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/23 "2009-07-13T19:19:16Z")
I don’t watch Letterman much but I guess I don’t understand where the “edgy” comes from with him. Doesn’t he repeat the same bits over and over - like the top 10 list? Yes, Leno has his standard bits too, like Jaywalking. I also don’t see how Leno is that much “safer” than Letterman either. Maybe I am dumb but I don’t see a whole lot of change with Conan vs. Leno either. I did read that Conan’s viewers are 10 years younger than Leno’s were on average. Not sure what Conan does that is “edgy” either. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/24 "2009-07-13T19:37:27Z")
Because people like to pretend they’re better than other people, and any stupid-ass reason they can hang their hat on is just as good as the next. It’s hardly unique to fandoms. Want proof? Just take a gander at [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=505814) from earlier this year for as wide a spectrum of ill-founded self-righteousness as you please. My guess would be that the popularity of specific rivalries is due to the ease and benefits of adoption. Proclaim, for example, that Star Wars is better than Star Trek, and you know you’ll have a good-sized support group right there to tell you how much cooler you are than those people over there who have the gall to prefer a different space fantasy. They’ll not only validate your superiority, they’ll provide you with talking points to boot. For that matter, you also have a predefined group of people to consider yourself better _than_. By taking up the mantle of a fandom rivalry, you gain all the benefits of elevating your social status via arbitrary opinions, while effectively eliminating any danger of actually having to think about anything. Really, what could be better? ---
**Author:** ![Piker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@Piker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Piker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/25 "2009-07-13T19:55:13Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > As a Letterman fan who couldn’t stand Leno, I’ll respond. I think it’s because Leno, a very good majority of the time, was pretty pedestrian. That’s not a bad thing - it appeals to a much broader audience, which is the goal of a television show. But he was safe, and much less likely to turn away a potential viewer than Letterman ever has been. > > As such, your average Leno fan isn’t all that likely to be too invested in Leno, as he’s a pretty casual viewer who is mildly amused by a mildly amusing joke or two. The Letterman fan, on the other hand, can’t stand Leno’s safe jokes because he’s looking for something edgier or more off the wall. > > The fallacy that comes into play is that the Letterman fan thinks that the Leno fan came into the late night TV viewership looking for the same thing he did and chose the inferior product. Add to to all this the fact that the pedestrian Leno (allegedly) stole the Tonight Show spot right out from under Letterman, and forced him to go to another network. Don’t know how must that plays a part more recently, but there are definitely some people who can’t stand that NBC decided to give Carson’s chair to Leno. In any case, that is all moot now. -Chris ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/26 "2009-07-13T20:02:17Z")
It wasn’t Leno who decided not to hire Letterman, it was NBC - Leno did not hire himself. Was Leno supposed to turn down the job so Letterman could have it? You may not know this, but NBC was all ready to fire Leno and give the job to Letterman in 93 when Leno was not doing well. The sticking point was that Letterman wanted the job offer in writing but NBC refused to put it on paper. I guess NBC was afraid the paper could leak out and they wanted to be able to deny the offer if Letterman did not accept it. The talks broke off and never resumed. ---
**Author:** ![Piker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@Piker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Piker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/27 "2009-07-13T20:07:57Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > It wasn’t Leno who decided not to hire Letterman, it was NBC - Leno did not hire himself. Was Leno supposed to turn down the job so Letterman could have it? > > You may not know this, but NBC was all ready to fire Leno and give the job to Letterman in 93 when Leno was not doing well. The sticking point was that Letterman wanted the job offer in writing but NBC refused to put it on paper. I guess NBC was afraid the paper could leak out and they wanted to be able to deny the offer if Letterman did not accept it. The talks broke off and never resumed. I understand that Leno did not hire himself, thanks for that clarification. The idea is that Leno’s management team was maneuvering behind old friend’s back for the job, and that NBC did not give Letterman the respect that he had earned. Whether all that is true or not, who knows, but it’s all ancient history now. -Chris ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/28 "2009-07-13T20:14:57Z")
Can you tell me what the “edgy” stuff that Letterman does is? I watch him some but I don’t really see him as being any different than other talk show hosts. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/29 "2009-07-13T20:25:15Z")
He’s ugly. That’s pretty unusual for a TV personality these days. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/30 "2009-07-13T20:29:24Z")
It’s part of the human tendency towards tribalism; they make their fandom part of their identity, and regard anyone who’s a fan of something else as a threat to that. Not that different than being a patriot, except there’s usually less shooting. As a science fiction/fantasy fan, one of the funnier manifestations of this I’ve noticed is the insistence by some fans that their favored series/character can beat any other that gets brought up, even when they are actually written as being wildly different in power. It’s like “good fiction” and “military superiority” has somehow gotten mixed up in their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/31 "2009-07-13T21:05:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As a science fiction/fantasy fan, one of the funnier manifestations of this I’ve noticed is the insistence by some fans that their favored series/character can beat any other that gets brought up, even when they are actually written as being wildly different in power. Ludvik Jahn could kick all your asses, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/32 "2009-07-13T21:10:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Can you tell me what the “edgy” stuff that Letterman does is? Suit of Velcro, Stupid Pet Tricks, Larry “Bud” Melman! Oh wait. That was 25 years ago. And Pepsi is toilet water! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/33 "2009-07-13T23:05:07Z")
Animated series get this a lot. People argue _American Dad_ vs _Futurama_ or _Family Guy_ vs _King of the Hill_. The irony was that there was zero competition between these shows - they were all on the same network. ---
**Author:** ![Unsquare\_Dance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b3f665/32.png) [@Unsquare\_Dance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unsquare_Dance)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/34 "2009-07-13T23:26:08Z")
I find that it’s the other way around most of the time for me (a Mac user). I have to hide the fact that I use them because people take it as an invite to yell at me and call me an idiot, or accuse me of having more money than sense, being a rich bitch, etc. But I also hang around massive nerds who treat this a bit like religion. :o ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/35 "2009-07-13T23:45:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Animated series get this a lot. People argue _American Dad_ vs _Futurama_ or _Family Guy_ vs _King of the Hill_. The irony was that there was zero competition between these shows - they were all on the same network. I love all four of those shows and have never met anybody who put one of them down over the other. What are these people you’re referring to smoking? And also, the Angels suck. Speaking of the sports angle again, here’s one to consider. Dodgers and Angels fans now tend to hate each other passionately, but this really wasn’t the case before 2002. Before the Angels won the World Series, Dodger/Angel games were essentially a big party in Southern California. Nobody really cared who won that much. Everyone rooted for both teams. But once the Angels won the World Series, the dynamic changed dramatically. Their fans suddenly were happy to point a finger in the face of any Dodger fan and remind them that the Angels were the superior local team, and that the Dodgers hadn’t done diddly since 1988. Then, of course, came the infamous change from the Anaheim Angels to the _Los Angeles_ Angels, giving Angels’ fans a new opportunity to claim that they were LA’s team, and leaving Dodger fans to wonder who the hell these people were laying claim to such a title when they aren’t even located in the city OR county of Los Angeles. And I can just about guarantee you that 50 years down the road, when people have forgotten what transpired in 2002 and shortly thereafter, the fans of the two teams will still hate each other. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/36 "2009-07-14T05:13:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As a science fiction/fantasy fan, one of the funnier manifestations of this I’ve noticed is the insistence by some fans that their favored series/character can beat any other that gets brought up, even when they are actually written as being wildly different in power. It’s like “good fiction” and “military superiority” has somehow gotten mixed up in their heads. Ah, Goku vs Superman, what would we do without you? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/37 "2009-07-14T05:19:16Z")
The answer is simple. People would rather why something is bad, rather than why something is good. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/38 "2009-07-14T07:30:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As a science fiction/fantasy fan, one of the funnier manifestations of this I’ve noticed is the insistence by some fans that their favored series/character can beat any other that gets brought up, even when they are actually written as being wildly different in power. Batman, if he’s prepared. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/39 "2009-07-14T09:12:36Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Batman, if he’s prepared. Does Batman have a plan for if he had to fight himself? If so, who would win? (Come on, this has to be covered somewhere!) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853/40 "2009-07-14T17:13:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I love all four of those shows and have never met anybody who put one of them down over the other. What are these people you’re referring to smoking? Really? Because I’ve seen threads like that even here on this board. Fans seemed to feel it wasn’t enough to just like your favorite; you had to also claim that the other shows sucked. I remember posting that I liked both _Futurama_ and _Family Guy_ and didn’t see why I needed to make a choice between them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-fans-bash-the-rival-of-what-they-like/502853.md?page=1)