# Why do films about Mars flop so badly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378 "2015-07-28T10:21:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/41 "2015-07-28T21:43:20Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > “Capricorn One” and “Mars Attacks!” are classics. Don’t forget [Devil Girl from Mars.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_Girl_from_Mars) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/42 "2015-07-30T21:52:25Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > A one few years ago when everyone said “Pirate movies always flop.” Then along came **Pirates of the Caribbean**. > > It’s just been a bad run of films about Mars, and that could be turned around with one big hit. Yeah, I mean in the past twelve years there have been a lot of popular pirate movies. I mean there’s PotC 1-4, and um, that porn pirate movie. And… Wait, PotC was just a fluke, it didn’t really do much to popularize the theme after all. I can picture a hit movie or a even a hit series about Mars, really, but not as the beginning of a turn around in the general thrust of how Mars movies turn out. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/43 "2015-07-30T23:25:53Z")
Except for the Schwarzenegger **Totall Recall** you mean? The one that opened #1 at the box office and made $261 Million? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/44 "2015-07-31T00:31:35Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Except for the Schwarzenegger **Totall Recall** you mean? The one that opened #1 at the box office and made $261 Million? Yeah – s why, when they remade it, did they change the setting from Mars to Earth, huh? Actually, I liked the original Total REcall a lot, even if it did steal shamelessly from Robert Sheckley’s _The Status Civilization_ (not set on Mars) and swiped the ending from Burroughs’ _A Princess of Mars_ (which was). ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/45 "2015-07-31T00:57:08Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > … > [io]John Carter\* deserved to do better – it was a heckuva film. … I’m going to have to STRONGLY disagree with you on that.\* John Carter\* was absolutely atrocious. One of the worst movies I’ve ever seen. I was shocked by just how unwatchable it was. Disney buried it because they knew any amount spent too promote it was going right down the drain. Between it and the irredeemably-bad _Mars Needs Moms_, the red planet (with help from The Lone Ranger) would have bankrupted Disney if not for the Marvel movies. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/46 "2015-07-31T01:40:48Z")
Nah, I’m with **Cal** on this. It wasn’t Best Picture material or anything, but it was a fun couple of hours in the theater, and it improved on the original source material (which was also fun) in a number of ways. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/47 "2015-07-31T01:52:49Z")
I kinda liked John Carter myself. Woola as the guard “dog” at the creche? Nestlings stay in the nursery. Oh, it’s a game ! Jump again! ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/48 "2015-07-31T02:01:57Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > It has a good university, though. Otis Sistrunk went there. That’s because they terraformed it using traditional college vegetation: Ivy, trees, hemp. That’s why it’s now habitable, unlike Utah. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/49 "2015-07-31T02:14:45Z")
I think the lesson is more that comedy and horror movies about Mars don’t sell. John Carter? I think that fell to Tent Pole Excess. Idiot cokehead studio execs cough up \> $200 million on a new franchise NOT based on a current pop best selling book? X-Men, Star Trek, Harry Potter, Hunger Games; you can throw $200 million at them and be fairly certain you’re getting your money back. If they would have thrown $200 million at Percy Jackson, they’d have lost money. As it was, they spent $95 million to make $245 million, which is why it had sequels. $200 million into a serial from the early 20th century? Madness. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/50 "2015-07-31T02:49:20Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I agree-so many photos from the mars landers have been shown, that people know the place looks like a sand and gravel pit. No abandoned cities, canals, or lost civilizations-just a dry, cold dead world. Not much to base an adventure movie on. What, you’ve never seen _Doctor Who_? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/51 "2015-07-31T03:04:31Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > What, you’ve never seen _Doctor Who_? You’re saying London looks like a sand and gravel pit? Guess it’s gone downhill since I visited. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/52 "2015-07-31T12:10:18Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > I’m going to have to STRONGLY disagree with you on that.\* John Carter\* was absolutely atrocious. One of the worst movies I’ve ever seen. I was shocked by just how unwatchable it was. Disney buried it because they knew any amount spent too promote it was going right down the drain. Between it and the irredeemably-bad _Mars Needs Moms_, the red planet (with help from The Lone Ranger) would have bankrupted Disney if not for the Marvel movies. Gonna have to disagree with you strongly on this one. I loved the film, and so did lots of other people. As for why it got buried, it wasn’t because of the film’s quality – it was a pawn in a dynastic struggle at Disney. But don’t take my word for it. The case has been made at length in John Sellers’ book **John Carter and the Gods of Hollywood** : > **[John Carter and the Gods of Hollywood: Michael D. Sellers: 9780615682310:...](https://www.amazon.com/John-Carter-Hollywood-Michael-Sellers/dp/0615682316)** > > John Carter and the Gods of Hollywood \[Michael D. Sellers\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. John Carter and the Gods of Hollywood You can also read about it here: _John Carter: The Flop that wasn’t a Turkey_ > **[Special Report: John Carter, The Flop that Wasn’t a Turkey — How did it...](http://thejohncarterfiles.com/2012/04/analysis-john-carter-the-flop-that-wasnt-a-turkey-how-did-it-happen-part-1/#comments)** > > TweetWhen a wannabe blockbuster turns out to be a turkey of a film and flops miserably, we don’t need any explanations — it’s clear what just happened.  A bad movie \[…\] > **[Special Report: John Carter, the Flop that Wasn’t a Turkey (Part 2)](http://thejohncarterfiles.com/2012/04/special-report-john-carter-the-flop-that-wasnt-a-turkey-part-2/)** > > TweetThis part two of a three part series entitled John Carter, the Flop that Wasn’t a Turkey.  You can read Part One here. by Michael D. Sellers John Carter: The \[…\] Fans even went out and made their own trailer, because the official one released by the studio was so bad: > **[Fans create unofficial new trailer for Disney's 'John Carter'](https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/company-town-blog/story/2012-02-23/fans-create-unofficial-new-trailer-for-disneys-john-carter)** > > This article was originally on a blog post platform and may be missing photos, graphics or links. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/53 "2015-07-31T17:12:44Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Gonna have to disagree with you strongly on this one. I loved the film, and so did lots of other people. > As for why it got buried, it wasn’t because of the film’s quality – it was a pawn in a dynastic struggle at Disney. But don’t take my word for it. The case has been made at length in John Sellers’ book **John Carter and the Gods of Hollywood** : > > [John Carter and the Gods of Hollywood: Michael D. Sellers: 9780615682310: Amazon.com: Books](http://www.amazon.com/John-Carter-Hollywood-Michael-Sellers/dp/0615682316) > > You can also read about it here: _John Carter: The Flop that wasn’t a Turkey_ > > [Special Report: John Carter, The Flop that Wasn’t a Turkey — How did it happen? (Part 1) – The John Carter Files](http://thejohncarterfiles.com/2012/04/analysis-john-carter-the-flop-that-wasnt-a-turkey-how-did-it-happen-part-1/#comments) > > [Special Report: John Carter, the Flop that Wasn’t a Turkey (Part 2) – The John Carter Files](http://thejohncarterfiles.com/2012/04/special-report-john-carter-the-flop-that-wasnt-a-turkey-part-2/) > > Fans even went out and made their own trailer, because the official one released by the studio was so bad: > > [Fans create unofficial new trailer for Disney's 'John Carter'](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2012/02/fan-creates-new-trailer-for-disneys-john-carter.html) All true. Also some critics panned it for being “derivative” then when their error was pointed out, they got all mad and sulky. So it had poor critical response due to ignorant critics. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/54 "2015-07-31T17:15:09Z")
John Carter was an abomination because all movies based on books should reflect my own interpretation of the story. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/55 "2015-07-31T18:01:48Z")
Look, John Carter was terrible. Not unwatchable terrible. But still pretty bad. And that’s fine, except it was the 4th most expensive movie in history. If you are going to throw a quarter of a billion dollars at a film, you better come up with freakin’ Avatar or Dark Knight Rises. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You’re saying London looks like a sand and gravel pit? > > Guess it’s gone downhill since I visited. I think the implication is 90% of Doctor Who episodes that take place “off world” are filmed in a quarry somewhere outside of Cardiff. At least the old episodes. A lot more of it is CGI now. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/56 "2015-07-31T18:37:20Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Look, John Carter was terrible. Not unwatchable terrible. But still pretty bad. And that’s fine, except it was the 4th most expensive movie in history. If you are going to throw a quarter of a billion dollars at a film, you better come up with freakin’ Avatar or Dark Knight Rises. > > . Actually, John Carter has a 51% rating on Rotten Tomatos (a blunt instrument for gauging response, but there it is). It got a good review from Roger Ebert, among others. Much better than “still pretty bad”. As for cost, it was $200million by bsome sources, and $225 according to Disney. The Wikipedia page gives, by some alchemy, $265, claiming to include some of the cosdt of promotion – which ought not to be folded into the cost of production. That page lists LOTS more films – about 25 – that cost $200 or over > **[List of most expensive films](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_films)** > > Due to the secretive nature of Hollywood accounting, it is not clear which film is the most expensive film ever made. Star Wars: The Force Awakens officially holds the record with a net budget of $447 million (although it is possible that Avatar: The Way of Water costs more if its price tag is towards the upper-end of its reported $350–460 million production costs). The third and fourth Avengers films (Infinity War and Endgame) stand as the most expensive back-to-back film production, with comb... And if you compensate for inflation, even using its trumped-up figures, it’s still only the 8th most expensive. Me, I love it, and have watched it numerous times. And I’m sorry we’ll never see _Gods of Mars_. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/57 "2015-07-31T19:03:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > All true. Also some critics panned it for being “derivative” then when their error was pointed out, they got all mad and sulky. So it had poor critical response due to ignorant critics. We’ve seen all this crap done a hundred times before, and done better. The response that they were all ripping from Carter doesn’t make it any less dull on screen. It was far too late in the game to approach adaptating the original with such unyielding straightforwardness. Play with it, play with expectations, out-do the imitators, wink to audience, lampshade something? No, they just shot it straight. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/58 "2015-07-31T20:26:45Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > We’ve seen all this crap done a hundred times before, and done better. The response that they were all ripping from Carter doesn’t make it any less dull on screen. It was far too late in the game to approach adaptating the original with such unyielding straightforwardness. Play with it, play with expectations, out-do the imitators, wink to audience, lampshade something? No, they just shot it straight. Well, no, they didn’t. **John Carter** isn’t unalloyed Burroughs presented page-for-page from the book. They put an intro (on Mars), added on a framing story and added stuff established who John Carter was before he ever got to Mars, so that you know who he is and how he handles situations first. They depicted the iconic scenes at the start, but changed the plotaround. They beefed up Dejah’s role and made her formidable. And in the process they depicted things that aren’t clichés, and haven’t been seen elsewhere. No, I don’t buy it – JC\* doesn’t look even like the other nostalgia out there. It ain’t got space ships. It doesn’t even have ray guns (aside from that one Thern weapon – which didn’t show up in Burrough’ series until, IIRC, _A Fighting Man of Mars_ (1930), after Buck Rogers used his first hand-held ray gun) – the Tharks use swords and rifles! It’s seriously different from Flash Gordon (which was itself a ripoff of John Carter, and used swords almost as much as ray guns) and all those other Planetary Romances, and light years from Star Wars. \*As my high school English teacher insisted – talking about _The Red Badge of Courage_ – “Just because a character’s initials are JC doesn’t make him a Christ figure.” I never thought it about Jiminy Cricket, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/59 "2015-07-31T22:29:42Z")
Well, I saw JCoM at an industry screening, surrounded by a friendly audience and well before the critics got their paws on it. And while the audience gave a respectable response, it wasn’t a raise-the-roof one you’d expect surrounded by people close to those who made it. I thought it was a dud. Badly written and acted, visually uninteresting, and boring. I knew of the source material, of course, though was hardly fluent with it. But I went in with the simple hope of being entertained, and I wasn’t. There is a way to handle well-worn material without it feeling overly familiar, but this film simply failed at that. I wasn’t convinced at this real world or culture, I didn’t care about the conflict, and JC was completely inert as a character. Everything reminded me of something I’d seen before, but without a hint of interesting novelty. That there might have been small little details which were new made no difference, because the vibe, pacing, arc and emotional values were so rote and unengaging. Was it the worst film I saw that year? Probably not. But I left with an overwhelming sense of indifference–so much so that even now when it pops up on free cable (TNT, FX, etc.), I’m not even remotely curious to revisit it. Zzzzzzzzzzz. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378/60 "2015-08-01T04:10:25Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You’re saying London looks like a sand and gravel pit? > > Guess it’s gone downhill since I visited. \*Doctor Who \*is known for shooting in Cardiff, Cardiff-as-London, and in the old days, the infamous “BBC quarry.” I leave which one **Slow Moving Vehicle** was referencing as an exercise for the reader. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-films-about-mars-flop-so-badly/726378.md?page=4)