# Why do firearm owners "need" high capacity magazines? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203 "2016-01-15T05:58:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/21 "2016-01-15T15:02:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do firearm owners “need” high capacity magazines? Need being the key word there. Why does the public ‘need’ 10 kinds of flavored vodka? Why do they ‘need’ 5 different fast food restaurant types? Why do they ‘need’ cars that go over the speed limit? And why do the anti-gun types ‘need’ to place limits on magazine capacity? What’s the justification? And where would/will it stop? An arbitrary limitation of 10 rounds per magazine? How about when they discover that even a semi-competent person can swap out magazines in literally 2 seconds? What will the new ‘need’ be then? Limit people to only having 2 magazines? Then 1? Then what? Revolvers? Oh, better get rid of the speed loaders then! Oh, why do you ‘need’ 6 rounds? Let’s go to 1 round! Well, if we go back to black powder and muzzle loaders… That’s the thing about this. It’s so obviously AWB all over again. Talk up how scary and ‘unnecessary’ (and ‘unreasonable’) it is for gun owners to have 30 round clips, and how we should limit that because…because…because it’s scary and unnecessary of course! Get that passed and then slide down the slope to the next arbitrary level. After all, if you can decide, arbitrarily, what folks ‘need’ THIS time, then that makes the next time easier…and the next…and the next. And that’s the whole point of this stuff. Just get a foot in the door, get SOMETHING banned and taken off the table, then move on to the next target. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/22 "2016-01-15T15:26:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s interesting. > > But I am not prepared to subject my civil rights to your decisions about what you would, or would not, gladly hand over. > > I would, however, point out that plenty of deaths have ensued as the result of books, even books less than 200 pages. “The Hitman,” of course, is an example of someone following instructions about how to commit a murder. But that pesky Koran is inspiring all sorts of murder and mayhem. “I would gladly have my freedoms limited to the extent of banning it.” I assume you’re on board? Or is it only you who gets to craft social policy based on what you’re “glad” to surrender? You’re moving the goalposts. You asked an honest question and received an honest answer. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/23 "2016-01-15T15:30:05Z")
Yeah, I’m not sure how requiring books over 200 pages to be printed as multiple, smaller volumes is at all equivalent to banning books that inspire murder. We were talking about physical objects and then suddenly there’s a leap to first amendment/free speech issues. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/24 "2016-01-15T15:34:31Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Yeah, I’m not sure how requiring books over 200 pages to be printed as multiple, smaller volumes is at all equivalent to banning books that inspire murder. We were talking about physical objects and then suddenly there’s a leap to first amendment/free speech issues. The first analogy (splitting books into smaller volumes) was a legitimate analogy. The moved goalposts analogy was BS. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/25 "2016-01-15T15:56:23Z")
If someone asks how many bullets you need, the correct answer is “as many as possible.” Watch any video-taped confrontation between a police officer and a criminal and you will see that even the trained law enforcement officer can fire many, many shots without result. If someone is trying to murder me, and I have to defend myself and my family, I want to be able to fire as many shots as it takes to end the threat. This is not a sport, and it is not a game. It is unbelievably stupid to tell someone they have the right to protect themselves from violence, but only in a certain way or with only a certain number of bullets. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/26 "2016-01-15T16:01:29Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > You’re moving the goalposts. You asked an honest question and received an honest answer. The 200 page book limit was never a goalpost. Consider it the 35 yard line. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/27 "2016-01-15T16:02:39Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Yeah, I’m not sure how requiring books over 200 pages to be printed as multiple, smaller volumes is at all equivalent to banning books that inspire murder. We were talking about physical objects and then suddenly there’s a leap to first amendment/free speech issues. That was always the point: to contrast First Amendment protections with Second Amendment protections. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/28 "2016-01-15T16:04:06Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The first analogy (splitting books into smaller volumes) was a legitimate analogy. The moved goalposts analogy was BS. Oh, good grief. You seriously believe that Congress could pass a law limiting books to 200 pages without offending the First Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/29 "2016-01-15T16:06:00Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/30 "2016-01-15T16:19:53Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > In a country of 320 million your odds of getting gunned down by someone with a high capacity firearm are incredibly low. Do the math and then worry about something that’s actually a risk to you. Which is actually good advice. Though some people _are_ at greater risk [until he died 2 years ago, I had a stalker that was violent, and when I lived with him did give me a depressed skull fracture and tried to apologize with a romantic dinner and roses … I now detest roses, and the smell of roses. He was the main reason I carried and at home I was rarely more than 5 feet away from a firearm unless my godsprogs were over. Now they are all over 10 years old, I don’t childproof my home as they have all been taught standard firearm safety the way I was when I was 8 years old. Every kid needs a firearms safety course simply so they realize the damage and death that misuse [or even correct use in emergency] can cause. > [@pkbites](#): > > :rolleyes: _Sigh_ > > I don’t wish for this to happen but I wonder how the antis would react if a guy armed with a 5 shot snubby revolver and a bunch of moon clips or speed loaders walked through a mall shooting people and reloading. Or someone assassinated people on a busy street from out the window of his apartment using a single shot shotgun loaded with rifled slugs? And someone could injure/kill a lot of folks with such guns before anyone was able to stop them. > . At one point about 15 years back [when I owned a wolf hybrid and the whole pit bull thing hit the news again] I had this irrational urge to take a toy poodle, dye it pink and lavendar, put a rhinestone collar on it, and little bows on its ears and attack train it, and turn it loose with the order to kill … I am more afraid of little ill trained [yappy ankle biters](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a5/b4/0c/a5b40cde9efde1a7dc21896aa121ab06.jpg) than larger dogs … > [@Shodan](#): > > [LIST=A] > [li]Limiting magazine size will clearly reduce the number of mass shootings, or the number of victims of mass shootings, or whatever the justification is suggested to be[/li][li]That the number of mass shootings is directly related to magazine size, and there is no inherent way to reduce mass shootings except to reduce magazine size, and[/li][li]That limits on magazine size will effectively reduce the number of victims in a mass shooting, or the number of mass shootings, or gun violence overall, etc.[/li][/LIST] I can sit in my wheelchair with a lap full of standard legal magazines for my Sauer 38H and [combat reload](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vnwg_kRRkM) til I have caused a fair amount of slaughter … but I do agree, the argument is something that does have some merit - I don’t need anything more than the standard magazine for my 38H, but I don’t see the need to shrink the standard 30 round magazine for something designed to have the 30 round magazine, though I don’t see the need to make a 60 round magazine if all it is being used for is hunting or target practice. Most civilians are not going to get into a firefight. I always found my M1 Garand 8 shot clip most adequate for hunting, and target shooting. [It is a tool, not a toy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVG_fWYD67o). My husband prefers his Moisin Nagant [M91/30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFA5U5FwJbo) which has a scorching 4 round bolt action and is slow to reload because of the sight. [URL=“[http://boards.straightdope.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/](http://boards.straightdope.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/)”] ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/31 "2016-01-15T17:14:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Oh, good grief. > > You seriously believe that Congress could pass a law limiting books to 200 pages without offending the First Amendment? Again, that was not your initial question: > [@Bricker](#): > > I would ask the OP to explain why he needs any book over 200 pages. If you truly have some complicated plot or content that just won’t fit in 200 pages, _you can just print a Part 1 and Part 2, or even a Part 3_ if we can imagine some hopelessly complex plot for the eggheads among us. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/32 "2016-01-15T17:29:55Z")
First off, framing the question in terms of “need” shifts the burden to individuals. The burden should rightly be placed on those that want to prohibit. If we were to adopt this framework, the debate would essentially be over because there has been nothing to support the need to prohibit magazine capacity. Since that’s not conducive to discussion, I’ll try to address the underlying questions, while at the same time reserving the position that there is no need to justify. Secondly, I’m not a hunter. I don’t have expertise or even great familiarity with the intricacies of hunting so I will not speak to those. I would say that the 2nd amendment is not about hunting. I do know for varmint control, the ability to follow up in rapid succession is desirable. Third, the question should not focus on a 30 round magazine capacity, though that is the standard for millions of center fire rifles. Virtually all magazine capacity limits in the country use 10 rounds as the demarcation point so my focus will be on that limit. To be clear, I oppose any limit on magazine capacity. If there were magically 1000 round magazines that were not unwieldy and were also reliable, then I would want to use those. Fourth, the term “high capacity” is looked at in the same way “assault weapon” is looked at by gun rights advocates. It’s a made up term, designed to elicit an emotional response. The phrasing implies there is a “normal” and “low” capacity as well. I think a standard capacity magazine is what the manufacturer intends and typically includes with the firearm. So a Glock 17 with a 17 round magazine is not “high capacity” - it is standard capacity. An AR-15 pattern semi auto rifle has a standard capacity magazine of 30 rounds. It is not agreed that a ban on high capacity magazines is not a 2nd amendment issue. I do not think it is super clear that a magazine limit would be either upheld or struck down at the SCOTUS level, but thus far at the federal district court level 10 round limits have been upheld, and 7 round limits have been struck down. My personal belief is that a 10 round limit offends the 2nd amendment, but a 100 round limit would not. The criteria I apply is the _“dangerous and unusual”_ and _“in common use”_ indicated in Heller. I don’t wear a black robe for a living so my opinion is pretty worthless in terms of the law. So let’s talk about the benefits of higher capacity magazine sizes. I often use police as a proxy primarily because there are so many of them, and there tends to be data available to analyze. Conveniently, many cities provide ‘use of force’ reporting data for their departments. Before you go on, think in your mind how often you think police hit their target when they fire. …. While it varies by year and between departments, it’s in the 25-40% range generally. In officer involved shootings (OIS) where there is only one officer, the hit rate tends to be higher than where there are multiple officers involved. Now think of how many round it takes to stop a threat. … Unfortunately there is not as good data on this subject. Police are trained to shoot until the threat has stopped. Unless a person is shot and instantly stops, they remain a threat. Instant stops require brain or upper spinal cord hits. Hits even center mass will leave an attacker a window of opportunity to continue to fight and inflict injury. Shot placement is critical. The general thought it to fire until the threat falls. Combine hit ratio and number of hits it takes to stop a threat – if it takes 3 hits to stop a threat, and your hit ratio is under 1/3, 10 rounds is insufficient. There are a few key scenarios where this is important. If there is an intruder in your home, I expect most people will not have time to gather their spare magazines for reloads. They are going to get their quick access weapon. That weapon needs to be as effective as possible. If there are 2 assailants, given what you now know about hit ratios, do you think 10 rounds is sufficient? I don’t. Contrast this with the supposed benefit of magazine limits – forcing people to have to reload in the event of spree shootings. The people who engage in spree killings have the leisure of planning their attack and will often carry multiple weapons and multiple magazines Even if they only used 10 round magazines, reloads don’t take very long. In a home defense scenario, without having spare magazines it’s not a question of also having to reload, it’s that without carrying extra mags you wont be able to reload. I want access to the best balance of effective defense – that means the more rounds available in a single magazine. Reloads in defense scenarios may not go smoothly, and even having available extra mags in a surprise situation is unlikely. I readily acknowledge that anything that makes self defense effective will make offense more effective. That being said, it’s informative to look at what police elect to carry for their own protection. They are not carrying snub nose revolvers – they are carrying 17 round Glocks, shotguns, and semi-auto rifles with 30 round mags. Any argument that supports their carry of these items applies to the general public as well. Yes police have a higher frequency of exposure to situations where these tools are needed, but danger doesn’t ask you if you are a police officer before paying you a visit. The other scenario that I personally consider is civil unrest. In recent memory there have been multiple occasions where there was temporary localized civil unrest where people needed to provide for their own defense. In those cases, more capacity is desirable. The situation would be multiple simultaneous attackers that would need to be suppressed. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/33 "2016-01-15T17:31:31Z")
I always saw the magazine capacity bans partially as a sneaky way to outlaw certain firearms. Some states have pretty low thresholds set (e.g. 10 rounds) which makes many guns which have a higher minimum capacity de facto illegal. I’m not necessarily against reasonable high-capacity magazine bans, such as having a higher threshold and/or making reasonable exemptions for such guns whose stock capacity is within a certain percentage of the threshold. In short, I don’t think firearm owners “need” high capacity magazines. But they do tend to get irritated if they move from Virginia to California and find out that their Glock 23 with its 13 round standard magazine is now illegal. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/34 "2016-01-15T17:43:09Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Trying to understand the “need” under _common scenarios_ for high capacity magazines. _My_ most common scenario–indeed, my _only_ scenario–is target shooting. My target piece of choice is the Browning Buck Mark (standard magazine capacity of 10 rounds), although I often shoot other handguns either borrowed or rented. I’m a big fan of a friend’s SIG Sauer P226 9mm; she generally runs a 20-round magazine. Now, I don’t _need_ a higher magazine capacity. And indeed, with my Buck Mark I am so used to the weight and balance of the weapon an extended magazine would be an annoyance. But the 20 rounds I get out of the SIG are very nice; when I’m just working on my aim or speedshooting, I don’t always want to pause as often to drop the mag. Higher magazine capacity increases my enjoyment of target shooting. As for long guns, I don’t have any need for high-cap shotguns, as I stick to clay pigeons and prefer a double-barrel. On the rare occasions I shoot rifles, I very much prefer as deep a magazine as possible, because I pretty much suck. More rounds give me more chances of actually hitting my targets without dropping my stance and swapping magazines. But as I said, I _only_ shoot at ranges. I store my Buck Mark in a locked case, with a trigger guard, on a top shelf in a closet (in a disused lavatory behind a door marked “beware of leopard”…wait, strike that). It is useless to me for personal or home defense, and that’s the way I want it. . ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/35 "2016-01-15T19:06:56Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I don’t wish for this to happen but I wonder how the antis would react if a guy armed with a 5 shot snubby revolver and a bunch of moon clips or speed loaders walked through a mall shooting people and reloading. Or someone assassinated people on a busy street from out the window of his apartment using a single shot shotgun loaded with rifled slugs? And someone could injure/kill a lot of folks with such guns before anyone was able to stop them. [Jerry Miculek shooting 6 rounds from a revolver, reloading, and shooting 6 more. On target. In 2 seconds.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw). See also: [mad minute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_minute), where soldiers had to shoot 20 rounds from a 10 round bolt action (and only 5 could be loaded in one clip). Mostly on target. At 300 yards. In 60 seconds. > [@bump](#): > > For example, my 9mm pistol was designed to use a 15 round magazine. A 10 round magazine literally requires engineering the stock magazine to be smaller, which seems kind of dumb to me. As in, the manufacturers literally have to redesign the magazine to hold less. Or it’s the same size, but the insides are taken up by a spacer. The Glock 17 is designed to carry 17 rounds. This is standard capacity, not high capacity. You can buy larger ones, e.g. 33 rounds for the G17, but these tend to be some combination of awkward and unreliable and prone to jamming (e.g. 100 round AR-15 drums, 20+ round SKS magazines). > [@aruvqan](#): > > My husband prefers his Moisin Nagant [M91/30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFA5U5FwJbo) which has a scorching 4 round bolt action and is slow to reload because of the sight. > [URL=“[http://boards.straightdope.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/](http://boards.straightdope.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/)”] 5 rounds. Plus one in the chamber if you wish. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/36 "2016-01-15T21:11:01Z")
Speaking only for myself, I don’t need them. The only weapon I own that accepts a magazine is my bolt-action deer rifle, and the magazine holds a whopping 3 rounds. My belief is that it’s a solution in search of a problem. Most magazines in excess of 30 rounds are plagued with failure-to-feed problems anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/37 "2016-01-15T21:22:23Z")
Serious question here – is there any accessible data on the types of firearms most frequently used in homicides? I have no clue at all how often high capacity magazines are involved. (And before someone says it, I realize my question can be picked apart on what counts as a homicide, a gun vs. a magazine, etc. I’m not interested in nitpicking how I phrased the question, you surely understand the basis of the question.) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/38 "2016-01-15T21:52:08Z")
As I’m not a firearm owner, I have no dog in this fight. However, were I to purchase a weapon to be used to defend myself, I would not want a legislator to decide for me how often I have to reload in a firefight. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/39 "2016-01-15T21:53:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Serious question here – is there any accessible data on the types of firearms most frequently used in homicides? I have no clue at all how often high capacity magazines are involved. There is some data about what types of firearms are used in homicides. Much comes from the DOJ National Crime Victimization Survey. [Here are findings from one of the surveys:](http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/wuvc01.pdf) > [@](#): > > U.S. residents were victims of crimes > committed with firearms at a annual > average rate of 4 crimes per 1,000 > persons age 12 or older. Of the > average 847,000 violent victimizations > committed with firearms, about 7 out > of 8 were committed with handguns. But that’s all crime victimization, not just homicides. Here they say about homicides: > [@](#): > > Homicide and weapons > Between 1993 and 2001 local law > enforcement agencies reported > 160,396 murders and nonnegligent > manslaughters of persons age 12 or > older to the FBI’s Supplementary > Homicide Reports. (The homicides that > occurred in the events of September > 11, 2001, were not included.) There > was an annual average of 17,822 > murders of persons age 12 or older > (table 10). A weapon was used in 91% > of these crimes. In 4% of the > homicides, the offender used a means > such as strangling, punching, and > kicking. Information about the weapon > used was unavailable in 5% of all > homicides. > Seventy percent of homicide victims > were killed with a firearm. Handguns > were used in 56% of all homicides. What is more murky is what proportion of the categories described were using magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds. But the question shouldn’t be how often larger magazines are involved, the question should be would the outcome be meaningfully different if a magazine with greater capacity was not used. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203/40 "2016-01-15T22:32:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Serious question here – is there any accessible data on the types of firearms most frequently used in homicides? I have no clue at all how often high capacity magazines are involved. > > (And before someone says it, I realize my question can be picked apart on what counts as a homicide, a gun vs. a magazine, etc. I’m not interested in nitpicking how I phrased the question, you surely understand the basis of the question.) This appears to be definitive ([pdf](http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF)) but includes guns used in any crime even if no death resulted and is rather old. Note that 7 of 10 of the guns listed on page 5 are cheap, complete pieces of shit (the Ruger, Glock and Mossb **e** rg are quality). These types of guns are often called “Saturday Night Specials.” If you want it broken down by caliber, it’s there too. [This is less official](http://www.tonyrogers.com/news/top_10_crime_guns.htm), and claims to be from 2000, but is a similar list, only 3 are [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-firearm-owners-need-high-capacity-magazines/743203.md?page=3)