# Why do folks who have something to sell refuse to say what they want for it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 29, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934 "2014-06-29T14:29:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/21 "2014-07-01T02:34:08Z")
It’s only reasonable that if one person knows the market, he should be the one naming the first price. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/22 "2014-07-01T02:48:41Z")
If you know the value of the item, it is advantageous to name a price first. (Anchoring effect) If you don’t know, you’re often better of not going first. If you don’t know, but you could’ve found out with some research, you are an idiot. Rule 1 of negotiating is not about who goes first. It is: do your homework. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/23 "2014-07-01T03:04:59Z")
I just donated the kids band instruments to the school rather than put up with this. I know they aren’t worth what I paid for them (used) because the music store I bought them from needs to mark them up to resell them - but frankly, its easier to donate them, get a donation letter from the school and take the tax writeoff. They are used middle school band instruments - which means they probably need a little repair as well - which will bring down the amount that I’d get from the used music store (and fairly, they need to pay the repair guy), but won’t take down the value on the tax writeoff. And I really don’t want to deal with Craigslist. Plus, I get the warm fuzzies of helping a middle school band student who wouldn’t be able to take band if their wasn’t a donated instrument (or, in this case, two). ---
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/24 "2014-07-01T03:25:23Z")
I used to work in a thrift store. Customer brings item, how much? In my mind, I have $2 as my price point. If I say that, customer offers $1. If I let customer start the process, I still have $2 as my price, but customer says $3. If they offer $1, I can either say no and make no sale, or decide wth a buck is a buck. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/25 "2014-07-01T03:46:15Z")
This reminds me of a friend of mine. He has a sports car he never drives and he wants to sell it. But he never puts it on the market because he “can’t get what it’s worth”, he says. I say, “You mean, what you want for it.” He says, “No, what it’s worth.” What the hell? If you can’t get what you think its worth then it’s not, in fact, worth that…no? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/26 "2014-07-01T05:48:47Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I do have an idea of value in my head. It’s “whatever you say + $50.” I’d love to just give you a number, but I need you to fill the variable first. > > Um, what? _All of life_ is taking advantage of superior knowledge. Well…let’s just say that I am not into the idea of “taking advantage” of anyone. I’m quite happy to make a fair deal - but I am not about to “take advantage” of someone’s ignorance. I don’t find it “right”. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/27 "2014-07-03T03:31:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > And what did you say instead? I think the WTF may have been on my face but what I said was “Better take that offer because I can’t come close.” ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/28 "2014-07-03T04:58:15Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So it comes down to the seller not wanting to be taken and the dealer wanting to get the maximum profit. Neither person wants anything less. I recommend people do a little research and try to fihure out what their item is selling for. Many won’t bother. That said, If I tell people daily that if they want to maximize what they get then they can sell it themselves and expect more. If you decide that’s a hassle and you want it to be quick then understand that folks like us who resell want it for considerably less. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/29 "2014-07-03T11:42:46Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > This is one of those areas where I like to pipe up and remind people, “You do this all day every day. I don’t.” Remember that when you are dealing with these people. They know they are in a situation where you hold most all the cards (information about value). So, they are a little rough at it - they don’t do this all that often. This really has nothing to do with what I’m talking about. I don’t expect them to be skilled negotiators. They have one or two items and all they need to do is have some idea of what they want. It requires just a little effot. And the people I’m focusing on are the ones who clearly have some idea of what they want but refuse to say it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/30 "2014-07-03T12:23:33Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > [Information asymmetry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry) is fairly powerful in situations like this. A customer walks in knowing a personal history of the instrument (i.e., what they paid for it) and not much else. You as the buyer know all kinds of things about the musical instrument market. You hold all the cards and wield all the power, and then a customer walks in and you say, “Tell me the _only_ piece of information you have that I don’t have, and then we’ll begin negotiations.” It really doesn’t have to be that adversarial or cut throat. We’ve been in business a long time and want to keep the reputation of being fair and a good place to bring used gear. We have regular customers who understadn the obvious. We buy to resell and need to be able to make a profit. They ask a reasonable amount, we pay it, and we’re done in 5 minutes. I tend to take people at their word and if they don’t want to give me a number that’s fine. What I’m talking about are those that obviously did have some idea of what they wanted and just refused to say so. Then after I’ve made an offer that is below their expectations they act offended or disgusted. Maybe my expectations are to high, but I expect reasonably intelligent people to understand that a Used Music store buys to resell so we can’t pay full value. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/31 "2014-07-03T12:47:50Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Then after I’ve made an offer that is below their expectations they act offended or disgusted. > > Maybe my expectations are to high, but I expect reasonably intelligent people to understand that a Used Music store buys to resell so we can’t pay full value. You know what “full value” is, though, and they don’t. Even if they know you’re going to give them 50% of what you’re going to sell it for, they don’t know what that is; all they know is the number in their head that sounds reasonable based on what they paid for it I’ll give you an example. I just sold a road bike on craigslist, but before I did I took it to my local Trek store to get fixed up. While I was there I saw that they sell used bikes, so I told them to make me an offer. I knew that I paid $700 for it 4 years ago and it had less than 100 miles on it. I know electronics depreciate like crazy, and to a lesser extend so do cars (IMHO because they’re full of electronics now as well), but a road bike? I figured it should be worth around $400. So I went out to CL and saw that they were listed for $300 to $350. I don’t know if any of them sold for that price, but I know that if I listed in on CL I was going to ask for $350. The bike store guy asks me what I want for it. I don’t know what they’re going to sell it for ($500?), so even if I assume they’re going to give me half, I don’t know what that is. If they’re $300 on CL I know I’m going to get less than that here. See, I really don’t know enough to even tell them what I think _they_ should give me. I could ask for $350 but why? I’m not going to get it. I could ask for $250, but that’s based on a complete WAG. They know what they’re going to sell it for, they should make the offer. Long story short, they told me it was junk and offered me $50. I said no thanks, paid them $70 or so to fix a few things, and sold it on CL the next day for $350. I don’t think they were being dicks, just elitists who had no clue what things sold for outside their own store. Me throwing out my own price wouldn’t have helped. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/32 "2014-07-03T14:00:20Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > No, I hear ya. Even with her rock bottom prices, she still occasionally has folks try to haggle her down even further. We just consider, for the most part, that it’s the price of doing business and laugh it off. A few years ago I worked at a discount store. EVRYTHING was already at a nice discount. We had a small waste basket with a lid for $3. Some young lady says “How much for this?” I reply, “$3 just as the tag says” "She looks at it and frowns. “I’ll give you a dollar” “It’s $3” “I know you will haggle here” “IT"S 3 DOLLARS” She just looks disgusted and walks off. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/33 "2014-07-03T14:12:05Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Whoever first names the price is at a disadvantage. That’s the perception. The article I quoted above says it’s a false one. > [@](#): > > Say you want to sell something for $100. The customer sees it and is willing to pay $200. If the seller gives a price, he leaves money on the table. If the customer gives a price, he’s overpaying. Since I work in an actual store the prices are clearly marked. > [@](#): > > Brian Epstein cost the Beatles millions of dollars in toy sales by naming what percentage of the price he expected to get first off. He hadn’t done his homework, and what he was asking for was less than a third of what was customarily paid. That means “DO YOUR HOMEWORK” not don’t name the price first. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/34 "2014-07-03T15:00:28Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > And then you wonder why people don’t won’t to name a price? Well yeah because if this person had said "I want $200 or $250 and had done a little research they would have been far more likley to get $150 > [@](#): > > FWIW - this, to me, makes you less than fully ethical. I think when you do this, you’re taking advantage of superior knowledge which is not cool - you don’t need to offer the full $150, but you should make a “good faith” offer to come closer to the $150 you would have paid… There’s nothing unethical about it and it’s not taking advantage of anyone. One customer wasn’t getting what he wanted and commented “Well at least be fair” I told him “Here’s the fair part, I make an offer and you can say no” We don’t buy from kids, they are all adults who ought to make some effort to find out what their item is going far, but just to elaborate a little bit There is no definate fixed dollar amount for anything. It’s more of a window or range. Every time I buy I’m making an educated guess on what I think we can sell it for. How correct I am varies. Sometimes we make very good money on an item we buy, sometimes we make just a ittle, sometimes nothing, sometimes we lose money. Some items we have to repair or refurbish and that costs money. The buying process is honest negotiation between two adults. We’re not out to screw people. If I ask and someone says “I’ll take a hundred” there’s nothing unethical about saying “okay” The customer is getting what they asked for and I and the company have a little more profit margin on this item {hopefully} to offset the items on which we make less , or nothing. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/35 "2014-07-03T15:13:06Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Well…let’s just say that I am not into the idea of “taking advantage” of anyone. > > I’m quite happy to make a fair deal - but I am not about to “take advantage” of someone’s ignorance. I don’t find it “right”. What’s fair, and right, and what constitutes “taking advantage” is somewhat subjective expecially in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/36 "2014-07-03T16:02:30Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > You know what “full value” is, though, and they don’t. Even if they know you’re going to give them 50% of what you’re going to sell it for, they don’t know what that is; all they know is the number in their head that sounds reasonable based on what they paid for it They don’t have to know the exact number to have a reasonable idea of it’s value, as you yourself demonstrate. You knew if the bike sold used for around $350 you wouldn’t get to near that from a reseller. You’d be surprised how many people do their research and then ask for the full going price for thier item. It just isn’t reasonable or smart to do that to a resellor. Of course if they are just throwing out a number to get the ball rolling it’s NP. > [@](#): > > Long story short, they told me it was junk and offered me $50. I said no thanks, paid them $70 or so to fix a few things, and sold it on CL the next day for $350. I don’t think they were being dicks, just elitists who had no clue what things sold for outside their own store. Me throwing out my own price wouldn’t have helped. To be fair, when they made the offer they were also going to invest the cost of the repair right? Your story shows tiy had some idea of fair value, and you knew not to expect what they might sell it for. Not everyone understands that even though it seems extremely obvious to me. different people and businesses have their own habits and policies. I’m happy to say our owner and most employees want to preserve a rep for offering fair value and consistently more than pawn shops would. Fair being subjective , not everyone will agree. I had to keep reminding a new employee that the goal wasn’t to lowball everyone and buy things as cheaply as possible. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/37 "2014-07-03T16:44:52Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > It’s an annoying game. I remember years ago when I went to sell my comic book collection one dealer said “$10 for the lot or $20 in trade” when he had several of my comic books sitting there on display, one was for $20. Comics seem really tough thanks to Overstreet. There’s defining what mint condition is, there’s explaining that while a comic sold for $200 somewhere once, not everyone is going to be looking for it everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/38 "2014-07-03T16:48:07Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > They don’t have to know the exact number to have a reasonable idea of it’s value, as you yourself demonstrate. You knew if the bike sold used for around $350 you wouldn’t get to near that from a reseller. You’d be surprised how many people do their research and then ask for the full going price for thier item. It just isn’t reasonable or smart to do that to a resellor. Of course if they are just throwing out a number to get the ball rolling it’s NP. > > To be fair, when they made the offer they were also going to invest the cost of the repair right? Your story shows tiy had some idea of fair value, and you knew not to expect what they might sell it for. Not everyone understands that even though it seems extremely obvious to me. > > different people and businesses have their own habits and policies. I’m happy to say our owner and most employees want to preserve a rep for offering fair value and consistently more than pawn shops would. Fair being subjective , not everyone will agree. I had to keep reminding a new employee that the goal wasn’t to lowball everyone and buy things as cheaply as possible. I think you underestimate the power of information asymmetry. The seller doesn’t know what the item is worth, necessarily, and gains nothing by naming the price first. The buyer has everything to gain if the seller reveals the price. The buyer assumes that the other party has some ultimate minimum and will pad the price, so the buyer will use the seller’s suggested price as the maximum and work down from there. Ultimately the seller has nothing to gain and profit on the table to lose by revealing the asking price. I suspect you are well aware of that and are simply griping about savvy sellers. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/39 "2014-07-03T17:11:15Z")
How about this for a strategy? The buyer has a maximum amount he’s willing to pay. The seller has a minimum amount he’s willing to accept. They both write down their figures and exchange them. If they match, there is a deal. If the maximum “I’ll pay” figure is less than the minimum “I’ll take” figure, there is no deal. If the figures overlap, you split the difference and have a deal. For this to work both parties have to write down their respective true limit figure and agreed there will be no “re-negotiating” after the figures have been exchanged. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934/40 "2014-07-03T17:16:06Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > How about this for a strategy? The buyer has a maximum amount he’s willing to pay. The seller has a minimum amount he’s willing to accept. They both write down their figures and exchange them. If they match, there is a deal. If the maximum “I’ll pay” figure is less than the minimum “I’ll take” figure, there is no deal. If the figures overlap, you split the difference and have a deal. For this to work both parties have to write down their respective true limit figure and agreed there will be no “re-negotiating” after the figures have been exchanged. It is a nice idea, but when it hits the real world it falls apart. It is the prisoner’s dilemma all over again. Both have an incentive to cheat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-folks-who-have-something-to-sell-refuse-to-say-what-they-want-for-it/691934.md?page=3)