# Why do freemasons have rituals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2004, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471 "2004-07-16T19:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/41 "2004-07-19T02:25:50Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > **Johnny Angel,** every Masonic Lodge I have ever encountered forbids the drinking of alcohol on Lodge premises. I believe the banning of alcohol is standard in the USA. What the Shriners do, I don’t know since I am not a Shriner. 😕 Aren’t the Shriners a branch of the Masons? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/42 "2004-07-19T02:53:37Z")
**LouisB** wrote: > [@](#): > > Johnny Angel, every Masonic Lodge I have ever encountered forbids the drinking of alcohol on Lodge premises. I believe the banning of alcohol is standard in the USA. What the Shriners do, I don’t know since I am not a Shriner. I am a Master Mason and have been for twenty-four years. I am Past Master of my Lodge and I take considerable pride in that. I am at least a third generation Mason, following my paternal grandfather and my father into the organization. There is a certain sense of continuity inherent in that. What I gather from actual Masons, as opposed to the many Masonic offshoots, is that it’s a fairly serious and sober organization dedicated to its public works. I am not as skeptical of this as I am of similar claims on the part of those who speak up for fraternities. That fraternities continue to practice shenanigans after many scandals is hardly a secret. Also, you’re not the first to emphasize this national standard of behavior. There was something of a controversy last year when a person got shot during a Masonic ritual, and a student in my class, a proud member of The Masons, said that the ritual described did not conform to the proscribed initiation rites and standards of conduct about which he assured me the national organization was serious as a heart attack. I’m not saying that you’re wrong, I’m just saying that there seems to be more going on in Masonry than is sanctioned by its highest ideals. Oh, and also my crack was mostly aimed at those lodges you see on TV with the funny hats. **BrainGlutton** wrote: > [@](#): > > Aren’t the Shriners a branch of the Masons? They’re seperate but related organizations. There are a lot of Masonic organizations, but there is also The Masons, with a capitalized ‘the.’ The Shriners are Masonic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/43 "2004-07-19T03:04:33Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny AngelThey’re seperate but related organizations. There are a lot of Masonic organizations, but there is also The Masons, with a capitalized ‘the.’ The Shriners are Masonic.[/QUOTE] Clear as mud, **Johnny.** Does “The Masons” include the Shriners, or does it not? And if “The Masons” have a policy against drinking in the lodge, does that include the Shriners? ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/44 "2004-07-19T10:22:01Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > **Polerius,** if you cannot immediately see the difference between a fraternal organization (Masons), a professional association (AMA), and an Insurance company (AAA), I can’t see any point in discusing the matter further with you. I think you don’t want your ignorance fought; I think you are being deliberately obtuse and that’s about the most favorable interpretation I can put on it. I think you misunderstood my intentions. I _do_ want to know the answer to “why Masons use secret handshakes”, it’s just that I couldn’t think of better examples. Since you make a distinction between a fraternal organization (Masons) and a professional association (AMA), can you please tell me what aspect of being a “fraternal organization” requires the use of secret handshakes? As I mentioned earlier, the AMA (even though not a fraternal organization), must have some secrets of its own that it does not want outsiders to know. Why don’t they protect them as strongly as Masons do? (and if the AMA doesn’t have any secrets, surely there are countless other organizations that do) Or are you saying that a fraternal organization is not actually trying to protect any important secrets, it just uses the secret handshakes to identify its members, “because that’s what fraternal organizations do”, i.e. the process of identification through secret handshakes is just the modus operandi of any fraternal organization, and the reason: just because. If the above is not the case, and the purpose is to protect some secrets from outsiders, why do Masons take such extreme measures, that other organizations (admittedly not fraternal organizations, but with their own very important secrets) do not take? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/45 "2004-07-19T10:36:44Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Since you make a distinction between a fraternal organization (Masons) and a professional association (AMA), can you please tell me what aspect of being a “fraternal organization” requires the use of secret handshakes? As I mentioned earlier, the AMA (even though not a fraternal organization), must have some secrets of its own that it does not want outsiders to know. A secret handshake is not a requirement for something to be a fraternal organization. However organizations, like individuals, vary in their purpose and traditions. Don’t underestimate the power of traditions to maintain a strangle on what we do despite it’s original purpose being long forgotten or unimportant. Marc Why don’t they protect them as strongly as Masons do? (and if the AMA doesn’t have any secrets, surely there are countless other organizations that do) Or are you saying that a fraternal organization is not actually trying to protect any important secrets, it just uses the secret handshakes to identify its members, “because that’s what fraternal organizations do”, i.e. the process of identification through secret handshakes is just the modus operandi of any fraternal organization, and the reason: just because. If the above is not the case, and the purpose is to protect some secrets from outsiders, why do Masons take such extreme measures, that other organizations (admittedly not fraternal organizations, but with their own very important secrets) do not take? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/46 "2004-07-19T11:49:19Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] > [@Johnny AngelThey're seperate but related organizations. There are a lot of Masonic organizations](#): > > Clear as mud, **Johnny.** Does “The Masons” include the Shriners, or does it not? And if “The Masons” have a policy against drinking in the lodge, does that include the Shriners? All Shriners are Masons; not all Masons are Shriners. Does that help? Shriners are Masons who have acheived the 32nd degree in Masonry, although not all Masons who have acheived that degree are Shriners. The Shrine invites Masons who have acheived the 32nd degree to become Shriners; not all such Masons accept the invitation. I did not, for example. As to alcohol consumption, I can only speak for Masons: Alcohol is **not** to be consumed on the Lodge premises. As I said earlier, I cannot state what policy Shriners have on drinking alcohol on Temple premises as I am \*\*not a Shriner \*\* and have no idea what they do during the course of their meetings. As to the 32nd degree—various degrees ranging from the 4th to the 32nd are attainable through advanced study of Masonic principles. A man who holds any or all of the advanced degrees does **not** outrank a Mason who does not hold such degrees. And, a note on “Secret Societies.” The Masonic Fraternity is NOT a secret society. Masons do not make any attempt to conceal their membership in the Fraternity. Members of secret societies DO conceal their membership–otherwise, the society would not be secret. Many Masons wear Masonic rings, lapel pins, belt buckles, etc that proclaim their membership. Many Masons have plaques proclaiming their affiliations with various Masonic societies attached to their automobiles. There is no secrecy associated with **being** a Mason; there are secrets associated with the Fraternity. But—the Masonic secrets are not really secrets anymore; the complete ritual can be found in any of several books that are available in any good public library. I would imagine the information is also available on the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/47 "2004-07-19T12:52:55Z")
**Polerius** , I apologize for impuging your motives. You seem to be concerned with the need for secret handshakes—the handshake, or the grip used in shaking hands, helps to identify one Mason to another. The handshake itself is not the only means of identification—it isn’t even the most important. If the handshake is presented informally, it can be so subtle that many Masons won’t recognize it for what it is **unless** they are primed to do so. If you are sincerly intersted in Masonry, locate a local Lodge, call that Lodge on the phone, and make an appointment with the Secretary. He will explain in person many of the things that I can’t go into on the Internet----telling something to a man face to face is significantly different that broadcasting it to the entire world. He will also give you some explanatory literature, in most cases—if he thinks you are intersted in “exposing” Masonry, he won’t have much time for you. Don’t make too much of the rituals----it is the idea behind the rituals that is important. The rituals help a person focus on the ideals, and on the history behind them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/48 "2004-07-19T15:02:48Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > The Masonic Fraternity is NOT a secret society. Masons do not make any attempt to conceal their membership in the Fraternity. I think the Freemasons got a reputation as a secret society because they were exactly that, back in the 18th Century – not in Britain, but in many countries on the Continent, they were considered a politically subversive organization, and a suspected Mason might get in trouble with the state or with the Inquisition. And in fact, by the standards of the time the Masons **were** a politically subversive organization, advocating free speech, a free press, no established church, etc. – in short, all the rationalistic and liberal values of the Enlightenment. So it comes as no surprise that George Washington and several others of our Founding Fathers were Masons. Franklin too, I believe. I’m not sure about Jefferson. Have I got that right? One other point: The Masons might be considered a secret society in the sense that, although they do not conceal their organization’s existence nor their membership in it, they do have secret rituals and doctrines, known only to initiates. By this time there is probably not a single Masonic ritual, handshake or codeword that has not been described in a published book somewhere, but in principle they’re **supposed** to be secret. One purpose of this (so a Unitarian minister once told me) is that **each stage of Masonic initiation is supposed to have a certain psychological effect,** which will be spoiled if the postulant knows in advance what is going to happen during the ceremony. Some of these rites were described by Robert Anton Wilson in his “Historical Illuminatus Chronicles” – _The Earth Will Shake, The Widow’s Son,_ and _Nature’s God_ – all set in the late 18th Century. Whether Wilson is himself a Mason I do not know, but it’s clear he’s made a deep study of Masonry. Have I got that right? Where are you, **Paul in Saudi?** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/49 "2004-07-19T15:58:49Z")
From the classic Ray Stevens song, “Shriner’s Convention” ([http://www.raystevens.com/SongLyrics/ShrinersConventionLyrics.html](http://www.raystevens.com/SongLyrics/ShrinersConventionLyrics.html)): > [@](#): > > Well, it was a secret meeting in the dead of the night with mysterious sanctimony > In accordance with prescribed rituals of time honored ceremony > Matters of grave concern were weighed with dedicated caution > Like whether or not to raise at stud or draw or spit in the ocean > > _Chorus_ > > It’s a typical American phenomenon where all the members have a fine old time > It’s the forty-third annual Convention of the Grand Mystic Royal Order > Of the Nobles of the Ali Baba Temple of the Shrine > > _Girls_ > > Meanwhile back at the Motel… > > _Spoken_ > > “Operator, room three-twenty…How’d you know? Oh! Hello! Coy? Where have you been? No, you wasn’t at the meeting! Well, I found out that at three o’clock this mornin’ you was out there in your Fruit of the Loom’s in the motel swimmin’ pool with a bunch of them waitresses from the cocktail lounge! I just hope your mama don’t find out about this, Coy! What? Well, how’d you get that big motorcycle up there on the high dive, Coy? Now Coy, dad blame it, that ain’t no way to act. We supposed to be pillars of the community. When we get back to Hahira you can just turn in your ring and your tie tack ‘cause Coy, heh-heh, you are out of the Shrine! You gonna be blackballed, boy! That’s right! You might even have to pack your bags and leave town! What do you mean you might join the Hell’s Angels? Coy! Don’t you hang up on me! Hello, hello…Don’t you crank that motorcycle! Who’s that gigglin’ in the background, Coy? Hello, hello operator! Yeah, we’s cut off! Rroom 321. Dad blame it Coy! You don’t hang up on the illustrious Potentate! I said the illustrious Potentate! This is Bubba! Bubba! Coy!..” ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/50 "2004-07-19T21:25:39Z")
Random thoughts while catching up on this thread: > [@Polycarp](#): > > Others apparently became Free and Applied Masons. Free and **Accepted** Masons. Applied Masonry is a reference to the actual practice. > [@Polerius](#): > > If, instead, Christian Masons have regular Christian funerals, and then after that also have some sort of Masonic service, then indeed, this does not necessarily imply a religious aspect to Masonry. This is correct. The Masonic Funeral service is a way for Masons to honor a fallen Brother and is usually performed in addition to the religious service chosen by the family. > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > In fact, historians are quite skeptical about the antiquity of Masonry. This may be the understatement of the entire thread! > [@Johnny Angel](#): > > They’re seperate but related organizations. As I remember the term is usually “Allied and Appendant” . All of the comments below are subject to my faulty memory/knowledge - I am not a member of all of the organizations listed. A&A bodies include (but are not limited to): Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shrine - must be a Mason to join The Order of the Eastern Star - must be a Mason to join if male, open to all female relatives of Masonry. Job’s Daughters - for teenage girls - open to the daughter’s, granddaughters, etc. of Masons. Rainbow Girls - open to all teenage girls Order of DeMolay - open to all teenage boys There are many others, but some are more prevalent in certain regions of the US. > [@Polerius](#): > > If the above is not the case, and the purpose is to protect some secrets from outsiders, why do Masons take such extreme measures, that other organizations (admittedly not fraternal organizations, but with their own very important secrets) do not take? Why is a secret handshake an extreme measure, but requiring a membership card and a photo id not? A handshake has the advantage of: 1. Not requiring printing since Masonry may well predate the availability of the printing press. 2. Not requiring you to remember to bring your wallet to the meeting and working even if you’ve lost your wallet. 3. Another thing you should keep in mind is that there is no national or international body in charge of Masonry. Masonry is governed at the state level (in the US - national level for most other countries) by each state’s Grand Lodge which is comprised of that state’s local Lodges. Thus, there is no body to issue/track/standardize ID cards. But a man who knows the various ways one Mason may identify himself to another has probably gone through the difficult (well, theoretically anyway, it’s actually not that hard) and time-consuming task of becoming a Mason and deserves the recognition and privileges attendant with that honor. > [@LouisB](#): > > And, a note on “Secret Societies.” The Masonic Fraternity is NOT a secret society. Loved this whole paragraph! Well written, Brother. To all of my fellow Mason in this thread a hearty hello! Recognizing the near impossibility of it, but it would be cool to meet and open Lodge together sometime - a Doper Lodge! Zakalwe - P.M. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/51 "2004-07-20T03:25:41Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > To all of my fellow Mason in this thread a hearty hello! Recognizing the near impossibility of it, but it would be cool to meet and open Lodge together sometime - a Doper Lodge! Is there such thing as an online, virtual Lodge? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/52 "2004-07-20T21:00:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is there such thing as an online, virtual Lodge? Interesting thought. How would you tyle it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/53 "2004-07-20T22:33:23Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Interesting thought. How would you tyle it? “Tyle”? ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/54 "2004-07-21T21:43:52Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Interesting thought. How would you tyle it? Looks like it has [been done before](http://www.mastermason.com/7thResearchLodge/howto.htm) > [@](#): > > We are a legal, regularly constituted Lodge of the Free and Accepted Masons that meets under tyle in cyberspace ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/55 "2004-07-21T23:28:07Z")
But what does it mean (I’m not a Mason) for a lodge to meet “under tyle”? (That website showes a tiled floor, but I don’t think that’s what you mean.) ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/56 "2004-07-22T00:46:42Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > "The three principal commandments are these: > > 1. Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. > 2. Love your neighbor as yourself > 3. Hi…" Ah, at last, I find a chink in **Polycarp** ’s armor, and can say, **Poly** you got that wrong One should of course read 1. Love Og with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. 😃 b.t.w. several Discordian rituals are secret, but that is just because they would be illegal in most civilized countries. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/57 "2004-07-22T19:38:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But what does it mean (I’m not a Mason) for a lodge to meet “under tyle”? (That website showes a tiled floor, but I don’t think that’s what you mean.) You know it’s funny, I was just going to link to a definition of the word, but damned if I can find one. Tyle is a masonic term for “guarded”. It just means that someone is making sure that only Masons are in the room or are allowed in the room. At a Masonic Lodge, the guy who sits outside the door is called the Tyler. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/58 "2004-07-23T05:09:06Z")
A ‘Tyler’ is a ritual guard most commonly found in Masonic lodges and in the New York Times crossword puzzle. The verb is ‘to tyle.’ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/59 "2004-07-23T20:19:42Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > A ‘Tyler’ is a ritual guard most commonly found in Masonic lodges and in the New York Times crossword puzzle. And what is the ceremonial function of the Tippecanoe? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471/60 "2004-07-26T17:56:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And what is the ceremonial function of the Tippecanoe? Sorry, that’s one of the secrets. You’ll just have to join to find out. 😉 Standard Disclaimer: While I am a Mason, I am not your Mason. You should consult with a Mason with expertise in your area of concern before proceeding. Also, it would be really stupid to join to find out the “Tippecanoe secret”, but if you do, please arrange for pictures of your new Brother’s faces when you ask about it. Thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-freemasons-have-rituals/255471.md?page=2)