# Why do gays insist on marriage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505 "2012-07-07T06:02:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/61 "2012-07-08T03:34:19Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > \*Literally unspeakable juding from **magellan01** ’s constant refusal/inability to explain just what harm will come from calling same-sex marriages marriages. Which is a silly position. See: “Same-sex marriage is marriage!” “Same-sex marriage is marriage!” “Same-sex marriage is marriage!” \*\ \* ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/62 "2012-07-08T04:04:53Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > yadda yadda I pinky swear the colored fountain has the same water as the white fountain yadda yadda… And the seats in the back of the bus are the same as the seats in the front. ---
**Author:** ![SunGazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@SunGazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunGazer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/63 "2012-07-08T04:06:25Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Ever see the [The Dirty Dozen](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061578/)? > There’s a scene where the men refuse to shave with cold water. Their commander reacts by refusing to issue them razors so they cannot shave at all. > The men don’t really care about shaving, but taking away the privelidge is the commanders way of letting them know that they are his to control. > > Witholding something from someone is a way of controling them. It’s a statement; “You are not free, you have no rights other than those I care to grant you and if you get uppity I may just take away what you have now”. > > This is the statement we make to same sex couples by not allowing them to marry - you are second class and we tollerate you at our pleasure. > Same sex couples only really want to be treated equally. Well said! I don’t understand what gives us the right to deny someone something just because of their sexual preference? Personally, I believe that the institution of marriage sucks and it should be no business of the government to get involved in it in the first place. If we truly have a servant government then why is it that we need to seek “licenses” to do things from them? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/64 "2012-07-08T04:11:10Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And the seats in the back of the bus are the same as the seats in the front. Except they get there later. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/65 "2012-07-08T04:44:03Z")
> [@SunGazer](#): > > Personally, I believe that the institution of marriage sucks and it should be no business of the government to get involved in it in the first place. If we truly have a servant government then why is it that we need to seek “licenses” to do things from them? What specific reasons do you have for thinking that marriage sucks? What good do you think would be accomplished by getting rid of marriage as a legal entity? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/66 "2012-07-08T04:54:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > \*\ > \* Well, we all knew it was inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/67 "2012-07-08T05:01:03Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Have you ever gotten married? Because everyone who was legally married in the United States got a secular marriage license. Got married within the walls of Our Lady of Perpetual Pain by Father O’Reilly? Secular marriage license. Got married in an open field clad in nothing but your birthday suit while Mother Raindrop chants about Diana and the Burning Times? You got a secular marriage license. Get married in some stark grey building with Comrade Jenner officiating the party line? You got a secular marriage license. So why do we have people insisting that it’s the state, and not religion, that’s extraneous to marriage? ---
**Author:** ![SunGazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@SunGazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunGazer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/68 "2012-07-08T05:02:17Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > What specific reasons do you have for thinking that marriage sucks? What good do you think would be accomplished by getting rid of marriage as a legal entity? I believe that a marriage certificate does not provide anything of meaning or value to the relationship between two people. On the contrary it imposes undue restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/69 "2012-07-08T05:17:38Z")
> [@SunGazer](#): > > I believe that a marriage certificate does not provide anything of meaning or value to the relationship between two people. On the contrary it imposes undue restrictions. Tax benefits? Pension benefits? Confidentiality in court proceedings? Inheritance laws? You seriously can’t see _anything_ of meaning or value in a legal marriage? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/70 "2012-07-08T05:26:43Z")
I insist on marriage because I want for me and my partner of 11 years the exact same legal rights, protections and privileges as, for example, my brother and his wife. Others may have other reasons, but that is mine. ---
**Author:** ![SunGazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@SunGazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunGazer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/71 "2012-07-08T05:35:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Tax benefits? Pension benefits? Confidentiality in court proceedings? Inheritance laws? You seriously can’t see _anything_ of meaning or value in a legal marriage? For tax and pension benefits, see [http://www.losthorizons.com/](http://www.losthorizons.com/) Court proceedings - Our courts are a sham. We need to move to common law and abolish our current admiralty based laws. But there are ways around this even in our current system without the need to procure a marriage license. Inheritance laws - Again, there are ways around this in our current system without obtaining a marriage license. But do read up on ownership in allodial. The government should have no say in what you do with your assets. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/72 "2012-07-08T06:04:10Z")
> [@SunGazer](#): > > For tax and pension benefits, see [http://www.losthorizons.com/](http://www.losthorizons.com/) > Court proceedings - Our courts are a sham. We need to move to common law and abolish our current admiralty based laws. But there are ways around this even in our current system without the need to procure a marriage license. > Inheritance laws - Again, there are ways around this in our current system without obtaining a marriage license. But do read up on ownership in allodial. The government should have no say in what you do with your assets. Jeez, sorry I asked. ---
**Author:** ![SunGazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@SunGazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunGazer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/73 "2012-07-08T06:05:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Jeez, sorry I asked. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/74 "2012-07-08T06:08:58Z")
> [@SunGazer](#): > > For tax and pension benefits, see [http://www.losthorizons.com/](http://www.losthorizons.com/) > Court proceedings - Our courts are a sham. We need to move to common law and abolish our current admiralty based laws. But there are ways around this even in our current system without the need to procure a marriage license. > Inheritance laws - Again, there are ways around this in our current system without obtaining a marriage license. But do read up on ownership in allodial. The government should have no say in what you do with your assets. When I saw “admiralty-based laws” I knew before I even clicked the link. _shakes head_ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/75 "2012-07-08T06:12:19Z")
> [@SunGazer](#): > > 😃 It wasn’t meant in jest. If you want to grind your axe about how much of a sham the government and courts are, it’s beyond the scope of the simple question I asked. ---
**Author:** ![SunGazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@SunGazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunGazer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/76 "2012-07-08T06:18:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It wasn’t meant in jest. If you want to grind your axe about how much of a sham the government and courts are, it’s beyond the scope of the simple question I asked. Boy, members of this forum certainly are contentious! Well, ok then don’t ask me any more questions. No need to get your knickers in a bunch. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/77 "2012-07-08T06:57:45Z")
> [@SunGazer](#): > > Boy, members of this forum certainly are contentious! Well, ok then don’t ask me any more questions. No need to get your knickers in a bunch. You now, when you’re participating in a forum calkled **Great Debates** , it is only reasonable to expect you to support your opinions with something vaguely resembling facts, especially when said opinions suggest that others not receive their legal rights, or have the legal rights they do have removed. If you want to just engage in mundane and pointless comments, well, we have a forum for that too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/78 "2012-07-08T06:58:27Z")
> [@SunGazer](#): > > Boy, members of this forum certainly are contentious! No, just me. > [@](#): > > No need to get your knickers in a bunch. Not wearing any, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/79 "2012-07-08T06:59:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > \*\ > \* But it was a very witty and stylish eldritch abomination. (Hey, “abomination”, like in Leviticus: I wonder if there’s a connection… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505/80 "2012-07-08T09:13:22Z")
> [@Kyomara](#): > > But can you understand that drawing attention to parallels that do exist between the two situations is not the same as saying they are exactly the same? Do gays have to be attacked by dogs and sprayed with fire hoses before they are “allowed” to call themselves an oppressed minority? Actually, at the Stonewall riots, gays were sprayed with fire hoses by the police. I haven’t seen any references to dog attacks, however. But since it became a major event, with calls to ‘all available officers’ to respond, that probably included some K-9 units. So police dogs were present, even if there are no records of them attacking people. Not to mention the Nazi concentration camps, where gays were attacked, even killed by dogs. And where spraying prisoners with water as they stood outside in the winter was especially common for gay prisoners (because one of the slang german terms for gay men was ‘warm’ brother). But we can’t expect actual facts to affect the original poster’s bigotry! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-insist-on-marriage/627505.md?page=5)