# Why do gays want to call their relationship a "marriage"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436 "2015-07-07T01:03:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/201 "2015-07-08T00:27:41Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Like many heterosexuals do I can procreate with people other than the person I’m married to. well that is rather obvious. no one ever denied it. I am asserting that a same-sex couple has no capacity for procreation. a different-sex couple does. Again, we will just have to disagree on this one. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/202 "2015-07-08T00:28:04Z")
So, though you’re a Christian, and your book specifically and pointedly declares judgement is the Lord’s, you’re okay with judging others because they sin differently than you, is that about it? Because that just makes you a failed Christian who doesn’t seem to understand the tenants of his own faith. Why should anyone care about your odd interpretation of what constitutes marriage? You can’t even understand the basics it would seem. How be you worry about your sins, let gays worry about theirs and let God sort it out. Y’know like that book dictates. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/203 "2015-07-08T00:31:10Z")
> [@Smartass](#): > > How about this? What if we test couples (regardless of gender combination) to ensure that at least one of them is “inclined to” male “patterns of behavior” and the other to female “patterns of behavior”. > > Problem solved, right? Of course, that would mean that we would have to prevent some opposite-sex pairings (or just not call them “marriages”), but it’s for the good of the children, so I’m sure everyone will agree. Well, I guess that makes sense. I cook and clean and nurture and hug and provide inconsistent discipline…but I also gap my own sparkplugs and grunt at sports. So it seems appropriate that I’m only a parent part of the time. I just have to make sure I get all butch when my kid is home, otherwise society will collapse. (And before you say it, **cornopean** , yes I’m divorced, which I’m sure you’d contend was a human rights abuse against my child. But seriously, with his mother? I mean, have you met her?) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/204 "2015-07-08T00:32:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How would you interact with the parents? Could you be friends with them? Could you accept them as they are? Could you accept the family as it is? That’s where the tired old “Love the sinner, hate the sin” bullshit comes into it. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/205 "2015-07-08T00:32:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How would you interact with the parents? Could you be friends with them? Could you accept them as they are? Could you accept the family as it is? If they were my neighbors, I would invite them over for a barbecue. I grab their dog if it were running away. I would help their child if it skinned its knee. I would help him shingle his roof. As we got to be closer, I would bring up the subject of marriage. Of course, I wouldn’t accept his lifestyle in terms of condoning it. I would accept it in terms of living next to them and respecting him as an individual made in God’s image. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/206 "2015-07-08T00:34:18Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > I would accept it in terms of living next to them and respecting him as an individual made in God’s image. You seem to have as odd a definition of “respect” as you have of “contempt.” ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/207 "2015-07-08T00:34:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Because that just makes you a failed Christian who doesn’t seem to understand the tenants of his own faith. Why should anyone care about your odd interpretation of what constitutes marriage? You can’t even understand the basics it would seem. Seriously, my interpretation of marriage may be “odd” to you but it has been the understanding of marriage of the vast majority of world history including the three major theistic religions. It at least deserves respect. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/208 "2015-07-08T00:35:11Z")
**cornopean** , yes you DID put down children being raised by people other than their biogenetic parents. You were asked to clarify… > [@Broomstick](#): > > And, by your statement - you think adoption is a terrible thing? Do I understand that properly, that you think being raised by someone other than your parents is a violation of a basic human right? But you only addressed selectively those parts of **Broomstick** ’s post that you could attack with your “obviously unnatural” line of objection. But never mind same gender parents, you also are throwing step and fostered children under the bus. You are proclaiming the inferiority of parentage by those parents who divorce and remarry, those second spouses who marry someone with preexisting children, people who adopt and who give up in adoption, hetero couples who recur to artificial insemination or to surrogacy. Heck, by tying it to formal ceremonial marriage, you are even scorning the parentage of a natural biogenetic parental couple who just don’t bother to make it official on the dotted line! Where have you been living your whole current lifetime, that you are unaware of the legitimacy and acceptance of these childraising/familybuilding scenarios?? OP, there is no need to resere a special, revered term for heterosexual \*civil \*marriage, which in our societies has not been tied to reproduction for generations now. You do understand the whole deal is with officialization of _ **civil** _ marriage, right? That in no way shape or form has \*sacramental \*marriage been affected? And that _civil_ marriage is defined by the _civil_ laws? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/209 "2015-07-08T00:35:55Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > well that is rather obvious. no one ever denied it. I am asserting that a same-sex couple has no capacity for procreation. a different-sex couple does. Again, we will just have to disagree on this one. You can keep asserting it all you want it’s been pointed out again and again it is untrue. If I were to marry my same sex marriage would have just as much capacity to produce children as my aunts opposite sex marriage. Of course we have to disagree, you believe something that is demonstrably untrue. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/210 "2015-07-08T00:38:10Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > I am asserting that a same-sex couple has no capacity for procreation. a different-sex couple does. _Some_ different-sex couples do. Some _don’t_. Some different-sex couples, when applying for a marriage license, are asked, “Hey, do y’all have the capacity for procreation? Cuz if _so,_ we won’t let you get married; but if _not,_ then you can.” ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/211 "2015-07-08T00:38:56Z")
> [@Smartass](#): > > How about this? What if we test couples (regardless of gender combination) to ensure that at least one of them is “inclined to” male “patterns of behavior” and the other to female “patterns of behavior”. Is there no one in this thread that agrees with me that men TEND towards certain patterns of behavior and women TEND towards other patterns of behavior? The differences between men and women are simply physical? there is nothing emotionally different? the whole “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” bit was just made up? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/212 "2015-07-08T00:40:13Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Seriously, my interpretation of marriage may be “odd” to you but it has been the understanding of marriage of the vast majority of world history including the three major theistic religions. It at least deserves respect. Sure. Times change, as does our understanding of what is right, and what is best for society and the individuals that comprise it. There is no factual basis for your assertions; that at least deserves respect. ---
**Author:** ![Smartass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Smartass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smartass)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/213 "2015-07-08T00:40:24Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > …it has been the understanding of marriage of the vast majority of world history including the three major theistic religions. It at least deserves respect. Can you show us where the three major religions state that their “understanding” of “marriage” is that it means “the union of two people who could theoretically procreate, unless there was some reason–other than homosexuality–preventing them from doing so”? I went to a Catholic school for 8 years and never caught that part. -VM ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/214 "2015-07-08T00:44:33Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Is there no one in this thread that agrees with me that men TEND towards certain patterns of behavior and women TEND towards other patterns of behavior? The differences between men and women are simply physical? there is nothing emotionally different? the whole “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” bit was just made up? There are differences in aggregate, of course. Most–the vast majority–are societally-created. But so what? You seem to be suggesting that we _must_ perpetuate those differences, and that children are better off with those differences as part of their upbringing…and you have provided no real argument for _why_ they would be. Not to mention that families do not exist in a vacuum. Do you honestly think that the child of two men will have no feminine influences in its childhood? That a child of two women will have no masculine influences? Seriously, please explain to me _why_ the best model for a family involves one masculine father and one feminine mother? . ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/215 "2015-07-08T00:44:59Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > But never mind same gender parents, you also are throwing step and fostered children under the bus. You are proclaiming the inferiority of parentage by those parents who divorce and remarry, those second spouses who marry someone with preexisting children, people who adopt and who give up in adoption, hetero couples who recur to artificial insemination or to surrogacy. Heck, by tying it to formal ceremonial marriage, you are even scorning the parentage of a natural biogenetic parental couple who just don’t bother to make it official on the dotted line! I recognize that many children are raised in less than ideal circumstances and turn out really well. I also recognize that there are heroic foster-parents and single-moms who do amazing things with their kids. But I think we can agree that these are exceptions. This is NOT the way things are supposed to be. Reading some of my previous comments, I realize I wasn’t as clear as I should have been. When you call a same-sex relationship a marriage, you are implying that this is a perfectly acceptable way for children to be reared and nurtured to adulthood. The normal is no longer the actual parents of a child raising him/her. That’s a problem IMO. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/216 "2015-07-08T00:46:20Z")
> [@Smartass](#): > > I went to a Catholic school Well hell, there’s yer problem. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/217 "2015-07-08T00:47:45Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > When you call a same-sex relationship a marriage, you are implying that this is a perfectly acceptable way for children to be reared and nurtured to adulthood. _Yes_. > [@](#): > > The normal is no longer the actual parents of a child raising him/her. _No_. Those who parent are “actual” parents, regardless of DNA. But that the norm is no longer _biological_ parents being required for a healthy family? _Yes._ > [@](#): > > That’s a problem IMO. Waiting on why. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/218 "2015-07-08T00:48:48Z")
> [@andros](#): > > There are differences in aggregate, of course. Most–the vast majority–are societally-created. are any of them genetic? > [@](#): > > But so what? You seem to be suggesting that we _must_ perpetuate those differences, and that children are better off with those differences as part of their upbringing…and you have provided no real argument for _why_ they would be. well I believe that the ways mom differs from dad are uniquely designed to provide the best possible “incubator” for children. Mom’s nurturing spirit shapes a child’s character in a certain way which dad can’t do. Dad’s rough and tough spirit does likewise. This isn’t to say that a child raised in a single-parent family is second rate or damaged. It’s just saying what the ideal is and what we should aspire to. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/219 "2015-07-08T00:51:09Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > When you call a same-sex relationship a marriage, you are implying that this is a perfectly acceptable way for children to be reared and nurtured to adulthood. It is perfectly acceptable for children to be reared and nurtured into adulthood by gay people in same sex marriages. If you have any evidence to the contrary please present it. ---
**Author:** ![Smartass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Smartass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smartass)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/220 "2015-07-08T00:51:57Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Is there no one in this thread that agrees with me that men TEND towards certain patterns of behavior and women TEND towards other patterns of behavior? What difference does it make? You’re making generalizations about a whole group, and then assuming that every individual in that group matches the generalization. It’s called stereotyping. Here’s the thing, though: You want to make declarations about marriage and child-raising that affect _every individual_ based on these perceived stereotypical tendencies. [ul] [li]Men tend to act masculine. Women tend to act feminine.[/li][li]Children need to be around someone masculine and someone feminine (why? because the Bible says so, I guess).[/li][li]Male-female couples will always have someone who acts masculine and someone who acts feminine, so the kids will be alright.[/li][li]Same-sex couples will have two people who act masculine or two people who act feminine, and the kids will not be alright.[/li][/ul] Unless you’re willing to hold man-woman marriages to this standard of requiring one to act masculine and one to act feminine, then focusing on same-sex couples is, at best, hypocritical. > [@cornopean](#): > > The differences between men and women are simply physical? there is nothing emotionally different? Which man? Which woman? > [@cornopean](#): > > the whole “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” bit was just made up? Oh, yeah. That man is more full of bullshit than, well, a bull. -VM [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436.md?page=12)